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From: Saibal Mitra <smitra.domain.name.hidden>

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:57:18 +0200

Bruno wrote:

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----

Van: "Marchal" <marchal.domain.name.hidden>

Aan: <everything-list.domain.name.hidden>

Verzonden: woensdag 29 maart 2000 11:40

Onderwerp: Re: Measure of the prisoner

*> >Suppose that the simulated prisoner is a ``digital ´´ copy of a real
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*> Saibal Mitra wrote:
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*>
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*> >[...] If the simulated time also corresponds exactly to real time then
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*> >the probability of the prisoner finding himself in the simulated world is
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*> >almost exactly 1/2.
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*>
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*> Why ?
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*> Even if the simulated time does not correspond to the real time the
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*> probability of the prisoner finding himself in the simulated world is 1/2.
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*>
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*> Unless you solve Jacques Mallah's desperate implementation problem
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*> (see the archive or Mallah's URL) you will not be able to use "time"
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*> to define the measure on the prisoner's experiences.
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*> >From the point of view of the
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*> prisonner, if COMP is correct, he cannot make any difference
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*> between real or un-real-time. Time (like
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*> space) is a construction of the observer's mind and is defined only in a
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*> relative way. What you need to do is to defined a notion of first person
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*> (or subjective) time *from* the measure on the possible computationnal
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*> continuation of the prisoner's mind.
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*> Note also that there is no "real" time in any many-world view of
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*> relativistic quantum mechanics (even without COMP).
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*>
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*> With COMP (which you are using here) there is no real time nor is there
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*> any need for such a thing.
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*>
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*> More on this in the archive at
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*> http://www.escribe.com/science/theory/m1726.html
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*>
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*> Bruno
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*>
*

I now think Bruno is right. The measure doesn't depend on t'/t. But, in any

case, consistency with other thougth experiments (e.g. simulations within a

simulation with another relative time-dilatation factor t''/t') limits how

the ratio of the measures can behave as a function of t'/t :

m2/m1 = (t'/t) ^ x

(m2 is the measure of the simulated prisoner m1 that of the real prisoner,

and it takes t seconds to simulate t' seconds of the life of the prisoner).

A nonzero value for x can still arise in certain cases. E.g. if one

simulates one day of the life of the prisoner with periodic boundary

conditions, one has x = 1. To see this, suppose the prisoner is simulated on

two different

computers, one with t'/t = 1 and the other with t'/t = 1/2. Only one day of

the life of the

prisoner is simulated. After a simulated time of 24 hours the simulation

starts all over again. Then clearly in a time interval of 2 T days, the life

of the

prisoner is simulated 2 T times on the fast computer and T times on the slow

computer.

Saibal

Received on Thu Sep 14 2000 - 09:09:01 PDT

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:57:18 +0200

Bruno wrote:

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----

Van: "Marchal" <marchal.domain.name.hidden>

Aan: <everything-list.domain.name.hidden>

Verzonden: woensdag 29 maart 2000 11:40

Onderwerp: Re: Measure of the prisoner

I now think Bruno is right. The measure doesn't depend on t'/t. But, in any

case, consistency with other thougth experiments (e.g. simulations within a

simulation with another relative time-dilatation factor t''/t') limits how

the ratio of the measures can behave as a function of t'/t :

m2/m1 = (t'/t) ^ x

(m2 is the measure of the simulated prisoner m1 that of the real prisoner,

and it takes t seconds to simulate t' seconds of the life of the prisoner).

A nonzero value for x can still arise in certain cases. E.g. if one

simulates one day of the life of the prisoner with periodic boundary

conditions, one has x = 1. To see this, suppose the prisoner is simulated on

two different

computers, one with t'/t = 1 and the other with t'/t = 1/2. Only one day of

the life of the

prisoner is simulated. After a simulated time of 24 hours the simulation

starts all over again. Then clearly in a time interval of 2 T days, the life

of the

prisoner is simulated 2 T times on the fast computer and T times on the slow

computer.

Saibal

Received on Thu Sep 14 2000 - 09:09:01 PDT

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