Hi Kim,
On 25 Dec 2008, at 06:21, Kim Jones wrote:
>
> A bit of an end-of-year ramble. For the multi-lingual, illogically-
> minded, lateral thinkers:
My last post was a bit self-destructive ramble as I am able to do once
a time. But that's ok. (I hope I am not shocking).
It is rather kind of you to pursue the destructive task. I guess it is
a tradition in december. I continue the ramble.
>
> Love bread - having lived and worked in France for 3 years
France is good for bread, wine and cheese. that's true!
> - love rice; my partner is Japanese and she has all of that wonderful
> imagination for rice cooking the Japanese have - drink water
> constantly in coffee, tea, beer, wine, gin, whisky, vodka, sake,
> shōchū - you name it
A very long time ago a doctor told me "your liver are bad; you must
quit alcohol". I said "NO, doctor". And I quit doctors.
I stopped alcohol, eventually. It does not make me feel good. I have
used cannabis as a very efficacious harm reduction technic in that
setting.
Occasionally I can still take some wine (don't panic when you will
borrow my body!).
>
>
> I also drink plenty of H2O neat as well - I am not of the mindset of
> W.C. Fields who famously said "I never drink water. Fish fuck in it" -
> although the taste of chlorine in the Sydney water supply adds little
> to the experience I must say...
>
> I wonder whether Boltzmann Brains need anything to keep them going?
> Have never read anything about the "energy needs" of Boltzmann
> Brains...
By definition, I would say that they use unreasonable statistical
events that you can interpret as providing unreasonable energy. A bit
like water boiling in the fridge. A rare event! A classical white
rabbits.
>
>
>
>
>
>> - in the morning: drink as much coffee or tea up until you remember
>> your 1 times table multiplication. It is enough.
>
>
>
>
> Yes, I am a caffeine lover too and do precisely this. Doesn't appear
> to help with mathematical understanding though. Merely allows me to
> feel real enough to confront "the world". Nobody should even dare to
> say "hello" to me before I have raised the caffeine levels to where
> they must be.
OK. We are the same person with respect to coffee.
>
>
> Hmmmmmm - might need something more artificial here, like a
> surgically-
> embedded nano-chip with Newton's "Principia" imprinted in it or at the
> very least "Mathematics for Dummies". Your response to this thought in
> the "Kim 2.1" thread was:
>
> "The pleasure is in the (long) path (I'm afraid). Note that a math
> book, a course or a conversation is already a good approximation of
> this."
>
>
>
> Bien sûr - It was, after all, moi who was saying recently that we all
> need to learn Chinese or Medieval Mongolian in our dotage to keep our
> brains healthy! I agree - it's the journey (of learning) that is more
> important than the arrival. Where do we arrive at, anyway? I imagine
> you would probably expect to continue to learn new things about
> numbers until you expire, so there is *no* arrival, no endpoint to
> learning. Nevertheless, the monsters of time and entropy are starting
> to bear down on me and my brain cells at age 51 (the digi-brain you
> supplied unfortunately needs to be replaced every three years or at
> the very least requires an exorbitantly costly hardware upgrade. In
> this respect, wet, messy biological brains are still the better option
> for the foreseeable future if you can only be satisfied with their
> puny processing power).
The pleasure is in the walk, but perhaps even more in the pause, when
looking at the panorama.
Like the pleasure in research is given by the pause coffee :)
>
>
> Although a devotee of "life-long learning" I need to optimise my
> efforts toward practical ends as death approaches and processing power
> wanes. Is not the long path the path for the young learner? Even COMP/
> MEC plus quantum immortality doesn't help here; there appears to be no
> carry-over of knowledge between instantiations.
Well a priori there is. Which a priori is rather unpleasant,
especially in "bad" form of death, like violent accident, or
Alzheimer. Fortunately, looking at the (more technical alas) details,
things are ... far more complex.
When you arrive at the panorama, you have the time to wonder how big
the mountain is. Science points on a mountain which appears bigger and
bigger as we climb on it. Assuming comp this is necessary. (As you
will perhaps see one day).
> If I die of natural
> causes, I have to start the learning all over again in my neophite
> self. If I go to Gaza and get a bullet in my head during a firefight I
> will default to a parallel self or instantiation elsewhere in the MV,
> but, once again - there is no carry-over.
>
> Also, by the time I have mastered récherché math by age 81, the
> technology of instantaneous learning will almost certainly have
> arrived by then which means I could have devoted the intervening time
> to something just as pleasurable but maybe considerably less
> difficult. You seem to be suggesting that particular something next:
Well I am not offering you a technology for doing new things, I am
offering you a tool for understanding that we have not yet solve the
mind-body problem and that we are really ignorant, and that, in a
sense, science has not yet begin, if only due to that Aristotelian
tendency to put the mind under the rug. We (humans) still avoid the
main data, probably by fear of the unknown.
The UDA is already a terrible shortcut, you will not have to wait the
age of 86 for understanding how possible truth can be ... well,
perhaps just disappointing?
The time when we will share our experience directly by brain
manipulation will come, but it is really the continuation of
conversation, book reading, and software downloadings and uploadings.
You want to know more, but I want you to know less. To abandon
knowledge so that you can recall the universal machine in you, the
universal machine you are, which is more like a baby god, full of
potentiality and empty of prejudices.
>
>
>
>
>
>> - in the evening: smoke as much Cannabis up until you forget your 1
>> times table multiplication. It is needed for re-creation.
>
>
> Have been doing precisely this for at least the last 20 years. I would
> welcome any interesting digression from posters on the topic of
> "Cannabis and the Multiverse". Cannabis does definitely help in
> forgetting things, so I am very aware of its re-creational power.
Without cannabis I would be a drunk man loss in complaints concerning
the event I talked to you some post ago. Cannabis saved my life almost
literally, and i don't regret that, even if that was a mean to live a
remake of those events 20 years later.
At some point a long time ago, logic, for me, was synonymous with
nausea. cannabis has helped to abstract away the bad connotations and
to cure the nausea.
> What
> amazes me is why the opponents of cannabis are so fearful of losing
> their memories?
In algebra and category theory there is the famous forgetful functor
which can be used to explain how losing memories plays a fundamental
role in the functioning of the creative mind.
The process of "Abstraction" itself is related to a forgetting of
information. Both in the intuitive sense and in many technical sense
(like in lambda calculus where everything is build from abstraction
and "concretization").
People who are clever in finding solution of problems are usually
gifted in abstracting from the non relevant information. It is an art.
> Occasionally we need to lose information in order to
> rediscover it in a different light, surely?
Yes.
> In fact, it's not like in
> Alzheimer's or degenerative brain disease where parts of the brain die
> - with "le shit" there is a simple chemical veil that is drawn across
> the (short term only) memory that is twitched away when the effect of
> the drug expires.
Alzheimer seems to be a lottery. Depending on the path of the brain
dissolution, the first person experience can be paradisiac or hellish.
It is something which can be very hard for those who live and care in
the neighborhood.
>
>
> What were we talking about?
Hmmm.... You are either smoking or joking or both ... Perhaps we are
talking about natural computationalism (and memory loss). The use of
plants to act on the brain. Could be a necessary path toward the
computationalist practice.
>
>
>
>
>
>> - I would be pleased if you could continue my conversation with Mary
>> (you know, God's Mother, the most gentle lady of the multiverse).
>
>
> Well, OK - but I don't think everyone's favourite "Atheist Theologian"
> Richard Dawkins is going to like this!!!!!
You could be astonished, but after having participated on thread on
atheism in salvia divinorum forum, I could conclude that Richard
Dawkins could indeed not like it, or be obliged to change its main
vocabulary interpretation.
Cannabis is an euphoric product acting, like you said, on short term
memory. It is fun and it explains it recreational success.
Salvia is a dysphoric product capable on high concentration to act on
your *whole* memory and identity. You get complete total amnesia, you
begin to go out of space and time, feeling your previous life as a
dream, and then you forget that dream, up to forgetting what space and
time could even be. Some people can live this as the most blissful and
completed experience in their life (completed means they feel no need
to do the experience again, once is enough). Other people lives the
experience as the most terrifying experience of their whole life.
Dysphoric is the opposite of euphoric: it is never a pleasant
experience. It is not fun. Yet it is considerably interesting for
those who have the taste in theology (say).
The interesting thing is that, notably, you realize that you can be
conscious without any memory. Most of the time the experience can be
felt as a big "déjà vu": not only you forget the meaning of "to be",
but you feel this as if it was your familiar "home". Like a coming
back that you have already done an infinity of times. It is
paradoxical and hard to describe. You get also some information
"there", but you forget them as you come back. It is quick: the voyage
last for 2 to 6 minutes (based on all experiences I have done, and on
the people which I have been a sitter°).
>
>
>
>
>> You will have to meditate two month each day OR smoke Salvia
>> Divinorum (more easy). Mary is gentle but she has her mood, so be
>> careful.
>
>
> Never tried Salvia but you know me - I'll try anything. You've
> obviously tried it, Doctor! Is this the only way (apart from the long-
> haul meditation) that I can get to talk to her? What has she got to be
> moody about anyway?
Although very poorly known in Europa, and only known by young people
in America and Australia, the plant is very well documented on the
net, through 5000 youtube videos, and many written reports (Salvianet,
Sagewisdom, Erowid).
If you decide to try it, I suggest you consult and study the plant
through those sites before. I have read many reports and look at many
videos before testing it, which I have done plenty of times in last
June, July and Augustus. If you read the reports you will see how many
times expressions like "reality", "realities", "overlapping realities"
are mentioned, which I found intriguing.
It is a plant known and cultivated by Shaman Mexican since 700 years.
After the Spanish Christianization of South America, the Mazatec
called Santa Maria, some divine entity they met or invite with the use
of the plant.
The most amazing fact, reported by many users (but not all) including
me, is the meeting, as described both by man and woman, of a "female
entity", although, I did met, and others have met, other entities. In
my case once the "female entity" appears, the other disappeared almost
completely.
Sometimes it could be male, and sometimes neutral too. That "lady" is
known or felt as being shy---- one noise in the streets and she can
vanish away. Despite this, on another occasion she can slice you in
million pieces and send them in dimensions apart, making you feel lost
as you would not have been able to imagine possible before.
About what is she moody? Well, curiously enough (or not!), she is
moody about your state of mind. I would say she seems to measure a
degree of self-honesty, so that if you are OK with yourself and honest
with her you got some "teaching".
It is an amazing plant. I have searched for a naturalist explanation,
and I think she could have had a long time trouble with some insect.
Probably she was obliged to be fertilized by its predator, so as to
generate an insecticide (like many plants) but one depending on the
"intention" of the insect (that is to fertilize the plant or to eat
the plant). This is a speculation I provide for illustrating that a
naturalist explanation of subtle psychoactive product could exist, and
here I tried to describe experiences, not an interpretation. Freudian
interpretation could possibly throw light on some features,
neurochemistry can certainly helps a lot, and indeed the main action
of the main psycho-active molecules (salvinorin A) have been well
studied. A confirmation of the speculation above is that the plant
blossoms very rarely, and when it does, the seeds are poorly numbered
and mostly inefficient. She reproduces herself mostly asexually by
natural cuticles. Eventually the predator-fertilizer was send away
apparently.
>
>
>
>
>
>> - If you want to continue my conversation with the Kanabo Gods,
>
>
> Ancient Japanese club-wielding demons????? SHIT NO!!!
Ah! Actually I am talking about the way shamanic extase is obtained
through the use of a tobacco by the Warao Indian of Venezuela.
Of course, psycho-active substance, like cafeine and nicotine and
entheogen in general, acts differently from one individual to another,
and generally depends also a lot of the way you consume it.
All the South-Americans shaman consider tobacco as a powerful
medicinal plant, but the Warao consider it as the most powerful
hallucinogenic plant. Now, to consume it, they feast (= does not eat)
for many days, and then they dance and smoke days and nights very long
tobacco cigare, and that is how they invoke the Kanabo Gods.
And you may as well say ... SHIT NO!!! because those are unpleasant
gods you can invoke when you have to kill your enemy.
I have stopped smoking tobacco one year ago, and I consume the snus
makla ifrikia instead. The benefits for the lungs was big and quick,
and I discovered salvia divinorum by searching for an "oral cannabis".
In this respect that was a failure, you can consume salvia orally but
you need to take a lot, and the trip lasts far longer, and is more
mild (which could be nice but is more expensive).
But the fact is that salvia has nothing to do with cannabis. The
experience are not even comparable. If you take both you have the
frustrating feeling that although they augment their respective
intensities, they contradicts on the quality and the purpose. Cannabis
push you to do what you like (listening to music, videos, doing math,
walking, dancing, actually doing something), Salvia asks for your
complete attention, in the dark, and in silence. Cannabis makes you
think and act, Salvia makes you disappear and reappear.
>
>
>
>
>> and deepen the Bahanarotu,
>
>
> Ancient Venezuelan shamanistic ritual. Less scary, could be interested
> there
Yes, the Bahanarotu is the ritual above.
>
>
>
>> take Nicotiana Tabaccum. The secret of Tabaccum (or tabacum)
>> consists in NOT smoking it.
>
>
> Yes, not smoking THAT seems to guarantee a lack of death from lung
> cancer.
Evidences exists that not smoking that diminishes the probability of
many other cancers too, including mouth cancer, but it diminishes also
cardiac accident, which seems to be due mainly to the combination of
nicotine and carbon monoxide.
> Interestingly, Cannabis (or Salvia) doesn't seem to be (as)
> fraught with that danger.
Most papers I read go in that direction.
The negative papers on oral tobacco, cannabis and salvia divinorum
maximize the number of occurrence of the "p->q/q->p" error, the
confusion between p implies q, and q implies p.
Recall me to explain this, when I will talk on logic, some day, perhaps.
> I charged up Himalayan mountains to 5,000
> metres last year and watched the Nicotiana Tabaccum lovers in my party
> sweat, suffer and - eventually climb on the Tibetan pack horse "taxi"
> to ride up to the summit.
I can imagine.
>
>
>
>
>> I suggest the excellent african oral tobacco "Makla Ifrikia". Very
>> useful to make your enemy disappear. Be careful the Kanabo Gods are
>> not gentle and needs a lot of diplomacy.
>
>
> I've got a statuette of one. He doesn't look very happy at all and is
> threatening me with a very dangerous-looking weapon
Looks like a Warao Kanabo God. Weird.
>
>
>
>
>> - Be super-cautious with Kava Kava,
>
>
> Have to go to Fiji to get that - might save it for a holiday cruise-
> ship experience.
I would describe my first and last experience of it like if I drank 2
bottles of strong Vodka followed by 5 thermos of strong italian coffee.
I was sick and super nervous.
Of course this is legal, here and almost everywhere.
>
>
>
>
>> Ayahuasca,
>
>
> Will never touch DMT!! Scary stuff....
I don't want to discourage you about salvia, but there is a ongoing
debate among DMT and Salvia users according to which one is the most
scary or "intense" experience.
Most pools put Salvia as more powerful than DMT.
If you decide to try it, I strongly suggest you try it incrementally.
Just a few piece of leaves (1X), and then more (after ten minutes),
and more again, and if you feel nothing then, try a very little piece
of 5X , and continue up to the moment ypu feel something and you can
continue.
Never take extracts like 5X or 10X the first time.
The sensibility is person dependent but also circumstance dependent,
and your set (and setting) matter(s) a lot.
>
>
>
>
>
>> Alcohol
>
>
> Tu rigoles, toi!!!!
And never mix salvia and alcohol. Take alcohol after! Well, you will
learn ...
>
>
>
>
>> and Eggs,
>
>
> Why is it then that if you go to hospital you get EGGS with every
> meal? (Having said that, I have never been to hospital but others who
> have report this astonishing fact)
It is cheap and easy to prepare, and not bad for the health in some
quantities, yet not to good when your liver are fragile I dunno.
>
>
>
>
>
>> or please keep your own liver.
>
>
> Ma foi, je vais bien garder ma foie! En effet, je préfère le shit à
> l'alcool, hein?? Le cannabis opère à un niveau complètement
> différent à l'alcool. Mais - tu sais bien...
After salvia, my relation with cannabis is like my relation with
alcohol after cannabis. No need.
This is a bit funny, but a secondary effect of salvia is its anti-
addictive power. You loose your addictions, be it game, heroin,
cannabis, coffee, tobacco, etc. I don't like that too much, and now
consume salvia very rarely and just some quantity of 1X. No real need
to go where you always are too often.
>
>
>
>
>
>> - For the leisure, try hunting the Snark, but beware everything
>> beginning by the letter "B", like Baker, Butcher, Belgian, Brussels,
>> Bruno, Bugs and other Boojums. Never take what they propose
>> literally, they lie or joke half the times.
>
>
> "Humour is by far the most significant activity of the human mind" -
> Edward de Bono. He is right. Study him.
I remember having read some of his books once in a trip to London. It
is not bad, but I remember that I disagreed on something. I don't
remember what.
>
>
>
>
>> If you follow those tips, everything will be fine until the next
>> brane collision.
>
>
> Chèr Bruno - je suis déjà à mi-chemin!!!
Indeed.
>
>
>
>> Note that not everything is legal in all universes, so you will have
>> to move, or you will have to vote for the relevant local politicians
>> and wait.
>
>
> Je n'en ai rien à foutre avec les politiconnards - ils sont tous les
> toxicomanes de pouvoir - les hypocrites et les cinglés!!!
Bien dit.
Those who mocks logic mocks human.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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Received on Thu Dec 25 2008 - 18:02:37 PST