- Contemporary messages sorted: [ by date ] [ by thread ] [ by subject ] [ by author ] [ by messages with attachments ]

From: Bruno Marchal <marchal.domain.name.hidden>

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:29:54 +0100

Le 21-nov.-06, à 22:58, Russell Standish a écrit :

*> Fair enough. I was just meaning that one cannot 1-tell as you put
*

*> it. I agree that it may be possible to empirically distinguish between
*

*> living in a UD and not in a UD, although that remains to be seen.
*

OK. Note that I have predicted the many-worlds appearance from comp,

including the comp-suicide, well before knowing the quantum and the

quantum MW. From an intuitive point of view the UDA explains also why

to expect some classical tautologies to be "physically" wrong, that is,

the UDA already justifies some form of non locality ("spatial" and

"temporal") for probabilities mainly due to the impossibility for any

digital machine to be aware of the delay a UD would introduce between

generation of successive steps in the running of all programs.

Now, with the AUDA, we have precise quantitative propositions to test.

We know that nature's observables violate the classical tautology

(p & q) -> ((p & r) v (q & ~r))

What remains to be seen is that the comp-nature violate it too, that is

that at least S4Grz1, or Z1*, or X1* does not prove the "quantized"

version of the Bell inequality (p, q represents the sigma_1 sentences

in the arithmetic translation, B = box, D = diamond):

BD [(BD p & BD q) -> (BD ((BD p) & (BD r)) v (BD q & BD(~(BD r)))]

using the Goldblatt (cf also Rawling and Selesnick) quantization rule T:

T(p) = BD p (p atomic)

T(A & B) = T(A) & T(B)

T(~A) = BD(~T(A))

Now, in "BD p" the box and the diamond are of course the one of the

third fourth and five hypostases (the soul, intelligible matter, and

sensible matter) so here the B<something> is really defined recursively

by B <something> & D <something> (and more complex if some modality

appears in the "something"). Just to say that when you translate the

modal Bell inequality into the logic G*, and then G, you get a huge

proposition, and although both G and G* are decidable, that Bell

inequality remains intractable.

In another post you say:

*> What Bruno is now calling the 3rd person point of view I label 1st
*

*> person plural. Bruno is now distinguishing several different types of
*

*> 1st
*

*> person plural viewpoints.
*

*>
*

*> I believe I took an accurate snapshot of the terminological usage at
*

*> the time I wrote the book, but terminology in this field does have a
*

*> habit of moving on (and so it should).
*

I don't think I have ever change the nomenclature. (my fault if I have

not been enough clear). Although G is the logic of self-reference I

take care making precise that it is a third person self-reference, like

when you talk on your brain/body/universe with your doctor. What is new

(since my thesis defense) is that, since I have (re)read Plotinus (and

get more scholar confirmations of my reading), I am willing to call

0-person point of view the notion of (arithmetical) truth. It helps to

fit the whole lobian interview in the (neo)platonist paradigm. By

Tarski theorem (the non definability by M of the full notion of truth

about M), the 0-person view is akin to the quasi-impersonal unnameable

ONE of Plotinus.

Such a notion of truth is not normative. If it is true that the machine

M will stay a billion years in some purgatory, then the proposition

asserting this will be correct theology. Purely theological

propositions, belonging to G* minus G, are not knowable in general, but

may be, correctly sometimes, "bettable" and some of them empirically

falsifiable, or first (plural) personally confirmable (like the

quantum).

In yet another post you say:

*> When talking about minds, the self/other boundary need not occur on
*

*> the biological boundary (skin). I would say that when dreaming, or
*

*> hallucinating, the random firing we perceive as coming from our input
*

*> centres (visual cortex for instance) is coming from outside our minds
*

*> (although still within our heads).
*

I can accept this. It is consistent with the idea that the UD is not

conscious, despite generating all possible form of (comp)

consciousness.

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.

To post to this group, send email to everything-list.domain.name.hidden

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list-unsubscribe.domain.name.hidden

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Received on Wed Nov 22 2006 - 07:30:34 PST

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:29:54 +0100

Le 21-nov.-06, à 22:58, Russell Standish a écrit :

OK. Note that I have predicted the many-worlds appearance from comp,

including the comp-suicide, well before knowing the quantum and the

quantum MW. From an intuitive point of view the UDA explains also why

to expect some classical tautologies to be "physically" wrong, that is,

the UDA already justifies some form of non locality ("spatial" and

"temporal") for probabilities mainly due to the impossibility for any

digital machine to be aware of the delay a UD would introduce between

generation of successive steps in the running of all programs.

Now, with the AUDA, we have precise quantitative propositions to test.

We know that nature's observables violate the classical tautology

(p & q) -> ((p & r) v (q & ~r))

What remains to be seen is that the comp-nature violate it too, that is

that at least S4Grz1, or Z1*, or X1* does not prove the "quantized"

version of the Bell inequality (p, q represents the sigma_1 sentences

in the arithmetic translation, B = box, D = diamond):

BD [(BD p & BD q) -> (BD ((BD p) & (BD r)) v (BD q & BD(~(BD r)))]

using the Goldblatt (cf also Rawling and Selesnick) quantization rule T:

T(p) = BD p (p atomic)

T(A & B) = T(A) & T(B)

T(~A) = BD(~T(A))

Now, in "BD p" the box and the diamond are of course the one of the

third fourth and five hypostases (the soul, intelligible matter, and

sensible matter) so here the B<something> is really defined recursively

by B <something> & D <something> (and more complex if some modality

appears in the "something"). Just to say that when you translate the

modal Bell inequality into the logic G*, and then G, you get a huge

proposition, and although both G and G* are decidable, that Bell

inequality remains intractable.

In another post you say:

I don't think I have ever change the nomenclature. (my fault if I have

not been enough clear). Although G is the logic of self-reference I

take care making precise that it is a third person self-reference, like

when you talk on your brain/body/universe with your doctor. What is new

(since my thesis defense) is that, since I have (re)read Plotinus (and

get more scholar confirmations of my reading), I am willing to call

0-person point of view the notion of (arithmetical) truth. It helps to

fit the whole lobian interview in the (neo)platonist paradigm. By

Tarski theorem (the non definability by M of the full notion of truth

about M), the 0-person view is akin to the quasi-impersonal unnameable

ONE of Plotinus.

Such a notion of truth is not normative. If it is true that the machine

M will stay a billion years in some purgatory, then the proposition

asserting this will be correct theology. Purely theological

propositions, belonging to G* minus G, are not knowable in general, but

may be, correctly sometimes, "bettable" and some of them empirically

falsifiable, or first (plural) personally confirmable (like the

quantum).

In yet another post you say:

I can accept this. It is consistent with the idea that the UD is not

conscious, despite generating all possible form of (comp)

consciousness.

Bruno

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.

To post to this group, send email to everything-list.domain.name.hidden

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list-unsubscribe.domain.name.hidden

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Received on Wed Nov 22 2006 - 07:30:34 PST

*
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0
: Fri Feb 16 2018 - 13:20:12 PST
*