Re: belief, faith, truth

From: Bruno Marchal <>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:42:49 +0100

Le 06-févr.-06, à 18:54, Tom ( wrote:

> My answer is probably too short, but I want to take the risk of being
> misinterpreted in order to be plain:

OK, I will take the risk of misinterpreting you.

> We can't JUST DO things (like AI).

Actually a Universal Dovetailer do nothing. It is a program without
inputs and without outputs.

> Whenever we DO things, we are THINKING ABOUT them.

Like a loebian machine, or a lobian angel (by definition an angel is
any platonic entity which is not able to be emulated by a turing

> I'd venture to say that HOW WE THINK ABOUT THINGS (e.g. philosophy,
> epistemology, etc.) is even MORE important that DOING THINGS
> (engineering, sales, etc.).

I could have a similar opinion. Eventually what I find important is
that what we DO reflects what we THINK.

> That is one way of looking at the advantage that we humans have over
> machines.

Mmmh.... feel superior ? (I guess you are using the pregodelian sense
of "machine").

> We have the capability to not just do things, but to know why we are
> doing them.

Are you sure we know why? Are you sure machines cannot know why?

> This runs counter to the whole PHILOSOPHY (mind you) of modern
> science, that we are simply machines, and that there is no WHY.

This is due to the materialist who like to use the idea that we are
simply machine just to put under the rug all the interesting open
problem of (platonician) theology.
Since Godel's discovery this position is untenable. Now we know that we
don't know really what machines are. With the comp-or-weaker hyp, we
already know that if we are machine then the physical laws emerges from
in a totally precise and testable way.

> This modern philosophy, if taken to its extreme, is the death of the
> humanness.

Since more than 3000 years, there are two competing "theories", or just
"methodologies" in front of the fundamental questions. In the occident,
they have respectively take the shape of:
1) Aristotle. In summary: "open your eyes and try to figure out what is"
2) Plato. In summary: "close your eyes and try to figure out what is".

My work: an argument showing that the roots of truth including physics
is indeed "in our mind", together with a constructive version of that
argument. This one shows how to program a universal machine (computer)
to look deep inside itself and expresses the physical laws, so that we
can test Plato. First tests has been done and confirms Plato, and still
more Plotinus. This illustrates that some back and forth between the
two methodologies, like in most scientific work, is not forbidden!

Received on Wed Feb 08 2006 - 04:45:01 PST

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