Re: Quantum Time Travel

From: Jacques Mallah <>
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:29:15 -0700 (PDT)

--- wrote:
> writes:
>> wrote:
> > > a) First, no matter how the self is defined,
> > > what boundaries you draw
> > > around it) the normalized measure for the self
> > > is always unity.
> > > Normalized Measure = M(Self) / M(Self)
> > > Which is nice and very egalitarian. We all have
> > > the same measure.
> >
> > Then why don't people similar to us, but who
> > see white rabbits, have the same measure?
> You are correct! But only from the third person
> point of view. I define
> "third person point of view" as a perspective which
> does not affect the survival of the observer!

    You still haven't defined 'the observer'.

> There are two kinds of
> white rabbits. The rational
> ones which I shall discuss now, and the irrational
> ones which I shall discuss
> in the next section. Different people "similar to
> us" do see rational white
> rabbits. They win the lottery, are hit by lightning
> and sometimes even
> receive a meteorite on the head. The number of these
> people, however is very
> small. Their measure RELATIVE TO AN UNINVOLVED
> OBSERVER is very low. For very
> very very few in the whole observable universe, the
> second law of
> thermodynamics may even revert temporarily.
> However, their own measure RELATIVE TO THEMSELVES is
> unity.

    Just one problem with that: it doesn't make any
damn sense. Measure is measure. On the other hand if
by "measure relative to themselves" you mean some
measure *ratio*, the important thing to realize is
that measure ratios don't play the role of measure
(foe effective probabilities) unless the denominator
is the same fixed constant for all.

> Furthermore, because of anthropic considerations,
> rationality of the mind requires a rational physical
> environment. Hence, if someone exists he must be
> able to make sense of his surrounding and observe
> the cause for his own existence. So irrational White
> Rabbits cannot be observed. [...]
> Hence any conscious entity must be capable of
> observing the reason for his
> own origin, Darwinian or Design

    That does not follow. Given the physical laws we
know, there is no reason a being can't come into
existance just due to thermodynamic or quantum
'random' events. It's just not very common, to say
the least.

> I repeat, from the third person point of view,
> everyone does not have the
> same measure. From the first person point of view,
> our own measure is unity.

    Again with this 'POV' stuff. That's the best you
can do, huh? I have explained countless times that
the total measure of some set of observer-moments is
the sum of the measures of the constituent
observer-moments. If you want to take some such set
and call it a 'self', that's your business.
    But the problem comes when you deny the results of
calculations, based on your ideology, that show that
(for example) when a measure distribution decays
exponentially with time, an observation at an early
time is more effectively probable than one at a later
time. You insist, with zero justification, that
because the set you want to designate as 'self'
contains a long time tail, there is no decrease in
measure with time. Then you try to cloak that BS with
mumbo jumbo about '1st vs. 3rd person POVs'.

> > > 3)
> > I already explained this to you: cardinality
> isn't the issue. Just take a limit in the right
> I know, I know. You just take the limit. As if it
> was that simple. It's not!
> Let me give you an example.
> [snip]
> Taking the sum of an infinite set depends on the way
> the element of that set are SEQUENCED!
> I think that when infinite sets are involved, the
> concept of limit must be applied very carefully.

    No kidding. Any high school kid is supposed to
know that. What's your point? As I said, take it *in
the right way*. Don't know the right way? Use
Occam's razor to guess Nature's preference. In the TM
UD case, N->inf seems fine.

- - - - - - -
               Jacques Mallah (
         Physicist / Many Worlder / Devil's Advocate
"I know what no one else knows" - 'Runaway Train', Soul Asylum
         My URL:

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Received on Mon Apr 17 2000 - 11:34:26 PDT

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