marc.geddes wrote:
>
> On Aug 31, 4:19 am, Bruno Marchal <marc....domain.name.hidden> wrote:
>
>> On 30 Aug 2009, at 10:12, marc.geddes wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>
>> But look at this. I decide to do the following experience. I prepare
>> an electron so that it is in state up+down. I measure it in the base
>> {up, down}, and I decide to take holiday in the North if I find it up,
>> and to the south, if I find it down.
>> Not only that. I decide to go, after the holiday, to the amnesia
>> center where all my memories, from the state of the electron to
>> everything which follows, except my feeling about how much I enjoy the
>> holliday. And I am asked to answer by yes or no to the question "did
>> you enjoy your holiday. Then, thanks to the amnesia my yes+no states
>> will be used In this way. I interfere with myself, and what will
>> follow in the new branch where I have fuse with myself, my, and your,
>> future is determined by my contentment qualia, in the two branches of
>> the waves.
>>
>
> This assumes that qualia are completely determined by the wave
> function, which (since Bohm is non-reductionist) I'm sure he'd
> dispute. The wave function only predicts physical states, it does not
> neccesserily completely determine higher-level properties such qualia
> (although of course qualia depends on low-level physics). If the wave
> function DID completely determine the qualia, your example would
> indeed contradict Bohm - but Bohm already admits he's non-
> reductionist.
>
>
>
>> In Everett universal wave (or Heisenberg universal matrix) and already
>> in arithmetic, "physicalness" is an indexical, we don't need the
>> notion of reality, just relative self-consistency.
>> We can cease to reify matter, and this is nice because I think that
>> this is what stuck us on the mind-body problem so long.
>>
>>
>>> reality has two levels, so really there's
>>> two different definitions of 'real' in Bohm.
>>>
>> You say so.
>>
>>
>>> There are no 'people' in
>>> the wave, its a more abstrast entity than ordinary concrete reality.
>>>
>> Ordinary concrete reality is a projection of the ordinary universal
>> machine from an infinity of them, to sum up roughly UDA conclusion.
>>
>> A deep weakness of Bohm, is that we can do all the possible uses of QM
>> from the SWE only, and then we have to solve a complex potential
>> equation to just "eliminate" the possibility of life and consciousness
>> in the parallel world?
>> And this by assuming weird things like non-locality (the root of Bohm
>> "non reductionism, I think), and non comp (or is this the root of "non
>> reductionism".
>>
>
> A weakness of MWI is that it does not describe the reality we actually
> see - additional steps are needed to convert wave function to human
> observables - Bohm makes this clear, MWI just disguises it. Even in
> MWI, additional unexpected steps (Born probabilities derivation etc)
> are needed to convert wave function to what we actually observe.
But in Bohmian QM the guide-potential just determines where a particle
goes. So all but one of the possible paths are empty, which one is
realized is just slipping the problem in the back door.
Brent
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Received on Sun Aug 30 2009 - 20:23:33 PDT