Re: Bayes Destroyed?

From: marc.geddes <>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:50:53 -0700 (PDT)

On Aug 31, 4:19 am, Bruno Marchal <> wrote:
> On 30 Aug 2009, at 10:12, marc.geddes wrote:


> But look at this. I decide to do the following experience. I prepare  
> an electron so that it is in state up+down. I measure it in the base  
> {up, down}, and I decide to take holiday in the North if I find it up,  
> and to the south, if I find it down.
> Not only that. I decide to go, after the holiday,  to the amnesia  
> center where all my memories, from the state of the electron to  
> everything which follows, except my feeling about how much I enjoy the  
> holliday. And I am asked to answer by yes or no to the question "did  
> you enjoy your holiday. Then, thanks to the amnesia my yes+no states  
> will be used In this way.  I interfere with myself, and what will  
> follow in the new branch where I have fuse with myself, my, and your,  
> future is determined by my contentment qualia, in the two branches of  
> the waves.

This assumes that qualia are completely determined by the wave
function, which (since Bohm is non-reductionist) I'm sure he'd
dispute. The wave function only predicts physical states, it does not
neccesserily completely determine higher-level properties such qualia
(although of course qualia depends on low-level physics). If the wave
function DID completely determine the qualia, your example would
indeed contradict Bohm - but Bohm already admits he's non-

> In Everett universal wave (or Heisenberg universal matrix) and already  
> in arithmetic, "physicalness" is an indexical, we don't need the  
> notion of reality, just relative self-consistency.
> We can cease to reify matter, and this is nice because I think that  
> this is what stuck us on the mind-body problem so long.
> > reality has two levels, so really there's
> > two different definitions of 'real' in Bohm.
> You say so.
> > There are no 'people' in
> > the wave, its a more abstrast entity than ordinary concrete reality.
> Ordinary concrete reality is a projection of the ordinary universal  
> machine from an infinity of them, to sum up roughly UDA conclusion.
> A deep weakness of Bohm, is that we can do all the possible uses of QM  
> from the SWE only, and then we have to solve a complex potential  
> equation to just "eliminate" the possibility of life and consciousness  
> in the parallel world?
> And this by assuming weird things like non-locality (the root of Bohm  
> "non reductionism, I think), and non comp (or is this the root of "non  
> reductionism".

A weakness of MWI is that it does not describe the reality we actually
see - additional steps are needed to convert wave function to human
observables - Bohm makes this clear, MWI just disguises it. Even in
MWI, additional unexpected steps (Born probabilities derivation etc)
are needed to convert wave function to what we actually observe.

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Received on Sun Aug 30 2009 - 18:50:53 PDT

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