Le 15-mars-07, à 19:38, Brent Meeker a écrit :
>
> Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>> Le 13-mars-07, à 05:03, Brent Meeker a écrit :
>>
>>> But there is no reason to believe there is any "root" cause that is
>>> deeper than variation with natural selection. You have not presented
>>> any argument for the existence of this "ultimate" or "root". You
>>> merely refer to "closed science" as though that proved something -
>>> but
>>> it begs the question. You have to show there is something outside
>>> science in order to know that it is "closed"; not just that there is
>>> something science has not explained, there's lots of that, but
>>> something that science cannot, in-principle explain.
>>
>>
>> Assuming comp, we can know that science will never been able to
>> explain
>> where natural numbers come from. That's an insoluble mystery.
>> It makes science open. Forever.
>
> I think that depends on what you count as explanation. There are
> certainly possible evolutionary explanations for why humans invented
> counting of say sheep instead of looking at each sheep as a unique
> thing.
OK, but we have to distinguish
A) the existence of numbers, and
B) the discovery of numbers by humans.
I can understand how human discovered numbers by mixture of
introspection and observation of a physical reality (and struggle of
life ...).
But to understand the physical reality I need the numbers at the start.
>
>>
>> But then comp *can* explain (but does not yet provide more than an
>> embryo of explanation, yet already confirmed) where waves and
>> particles
>> come from, and also, unlike physics, why waves and particles can hurt
>> (cf G/G*).
>
> But can comp explain why there is einselection of large objects and
> the world is approximately classical.
Normally classical comp implies quantum observation, and quantum theory
can explain the emergence of the classical mind (in the Everett,
Hartle, Deutsch way).
Comp makes qubit emerging from glueing dreams by bits. But our local
bits emerge most probably from our local qubits.
Bit---Qubit is a two way road, if comp is correct (and if my reasoning
is valid, 'course).
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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Received on Tue Mar 20 2007 - 11:17:33 PDT