Mark Peaty wrote:
> Bruno, Stathis, Brent, Peter,Brent, Tom, Hal and others,
>
> I have to be very impertinent here and try to draw your attention to
> something you are just not getting.
>
> There is NO ultimate answer to the meaning of life, the universe and
> everything except that IT IS, and you are here to take part in it
> and observe yourself and others doing so. Existence is the source of
> value, indeed it is the essence of value.
>
> I am not in the habit of putting myself forward, but here I believe
> the ideas are what count and I believe the issue is very important.
No, problem - we're all human beings here.
>I
> mean at 55 yo I know I have already attained 'old fart' status for
> most people I meet. But one thing I know for sure is that, just like
> me, YOU are not going to live for ever.
Bruno thinks he will :-)
>As most of you seem a fair
> bit smarter than me I assume that you can/will mostly choose how you
> spend your limited lifetime. Choose wisely 'cause it's a once-off.
>
> I really do think that before any of you get much older you should
> take a VERY careful look at what I have been writing here. Have a
> look also at the common meanings for the word physics [samples
> included below].
I don't need to read definitions of physics - I are one. :-)
>If you don't then I think you are going to spend the
> rest of your lives chasing shadows, and end up a bunch of old men
> sitting on the cyberspace equivalent of a park bench, STILL chewing
> over the same old problem! Of course, if that is what you want then
> that's fine. But don't say you weren't warned! :-)
There's something to be said for chewing the metaphysical fat. But worry about yourself - I race motorcycles on the weekend.
>
> the fact is, being conscious is inherently paradoxical, and there is
> no escape from the paradox, just like there is no escape from the
> universe - until you die that is. Your impressions, perceptions,
> feelings, intuitions, etc. of being here now [where you are of
> course] is what it is like to be the updating of the model of self in
> the world which you brain is constantly constructing all the time you
> are awake. When you sleep there are times when enough of the model
> gets evoked that you have a dream that you can remember. The paradox
> is that for most of the time we assume that this awareness -
> consciousness, call it what you like - IS the world, i.e. what it is
> like to be 'me' here now, whereas in fact it is only what it is like
> to be the model of 'me' here now. This does not mean that you don't
> exist; you do exist, and you must pay taxes in partial payment for
> the privilege, until you die that is. [I work for the Australian
> Taxation Office so I know about these things :-] There is however a
> lot more stuff going on in your brain than is actually explicitly
> involved in your consciousness of the moment, as far as I can see
> there are usually a couple or triple of very sophisticated tasks
> going on in parallel but swapping in and out of focussed attention as
> needs and priorities of the moment require. There are often also
> several other tasks simmering away like pots on the back burners of
> your stove.
I agree. Consciousness is a very small part of thinking - even of logical and mathematical thinking (c.f. Poincare' effect).
>
> I believe it is the hippocampus which maintains the tasks in process
> through re-entrant signalling to the relevant cortical and other
> areas which embody the salient features of the constructs involved.
> Binding is achieved through re-entrant signalling of resonant wave
> forms such that each construct EXISTS as a dynamic logical entity
> able to maintain its own structure sufficiently to prevent certain
> other things happening and to invoke through association [or perhaps
> through reaction to patterns of inhibition, whatever] other
> constructs as necessary. Note the key word 'exists'. The energy is
> supplied through the work done as the neurons re-establish the
> resting potential of their cell membranes. And here I should point
> out that most of the posts on this list do not seem to talk much
> about structure, and yet it is the spatia-temporal structures of
> interacting cell assemblies which embody the patterns of information
> which make muscles move. Think about it! This is what you should be
> really concentrating on, because you and I are NOTHING if our muscles
> can't be made to move in exactly the right way and the right time.
Except it is obvious that it doesn't take that specific structure to make the muscles move - anything that sets off the appropriate efferent nerve will work. Do you agree that your brain could be replaced, say neuron by neuron, with electronic neurons and still move your muscles...and still maintain your consciousness?
>
> I know I have written 'I believe' up there a few times, but if you
> wish I can go hunting for you and find a bunch of references that
> back up what I am saying. I do not have access to pay-as-you-go
> academic journals, so I have been gleaning ideas and items of
> interest about this for the last couple of decades. I put it to you
> that if you seriously think I am wrong, then you have a moral duty to
> show me on the basis of clear and unambiguous empirical evidence
> where it is that I am wrong about this. Because otherwise it is just
> a matter of opinion and speculation, in which case mine is as good as
> anybody else's that I have seen on consciousness related lists and
> what I am proposing is not in contradiction to any good evidence that
> I have heard about. I think William of Occam would be more than happy
> with what I am putting forward.
>
> I hope no one is offended by this. Is they are, sorry! But time
> returns for no one and you do not have for ever, just all the time
> there is - for you. That is what entropy is about.
Entropy is about possibilities.
Brent Meeker
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Received on Fri Jan 05 2007 - 14:58:45 PST