Re: Hypostases (was: Natural Order & Belief)

From: Tom Caylor <>
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 01:03:27 -0800

Bruno Marchal wrote:
> >>> This is my point. We go too far when we let our view of the "natural
> >>> order" (or "god"!) be the dictator of what can happen. Indeed this
> >>> is
> >>> actually making ourselves the center of the universe (multiverse).
> >>> This is against the true essence of spirituality.
> >>
> >> I agree with you. "Naturalism" as implicit metaphysics or theology is
> >> as fake as any form of authoritative dogma. Of course a *doubting*
> >> naturalist can remain scientific. But a naturalist who says that when
> >> we die, we will not born again (like many materialist believes) is
> >> just
> >> "religious" in the worst sense of the word. The truth is that we don't
> >> know, but can propose theories.
> >> With comp, it is easy to kill oneself ... locally. It is harder ...
> >> globally. With comp it remains possible that consciousness is a sort
> >> of prison, as Otto Rossler extracts from Descartes (I agree with him
> >> on
> >> that).
> >>
> >>
> >
> > It is interesting that strict naturalism is a prison,
> In which sense? I don't think this is related to the Rossler view of
> Descartes. I see Rossler put a video on this on the net, but it is in
> german:
> see also the pdf:
> (search for "Descartes")
> Bruno

Strict naturalism in the sense of believing in the uniformity of
natural causes in a closed system. The important word is "closed",
hence a prison. And it's not a happy prison either, because of the
contagiousness of inconsistency. Descartes' consistency is not a
solution in a closed system with me at the center of it. I read the
Rossler talk and I see both the naturalism prison and the consciousness
prison in there.

Have you read Francis Schaeffer's trilogy of books: The God Who Is
There, Escape From Reason, and He Is There And He Is Not Silent. He
talks about the consequences of the belief in the uniformity of natural
causes in a closed system.


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Received on Fri Nov 24 2006 - 04:04:07 PST

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