Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> Tom Caylor writes:
>
> > > But it's not a mistake to assume a magical Daddy in the sky who'll torture you in hell if you don't flatter him? Lewis must have enjoyed this arrogant view of his own perception that could point to the mistakes of strawmen he invented for the purpose.
> >
> > I don't know the names of the fallacies. My brother has a law degree,
> > but my mathematical mind can at least recognize a fallacy when I smell
> > one. So here's an analogy. The laws of physics etc. that we deduce
> > from empirical data give us models with which we can predict the
> > behavior of "nature" (being defined by that which we can predict). It
> > is like we deduce that all of nature is like rolling hills of grass.
> > Perhaps we aren't able to predict the grass down at the blade-by-blade
> > level, but we've come up with probabilitistic models that predict the
> > statistics of the blades (a la quantum mechanics). Now we can imagine,
> > and we've been told stories, that there is such a thing as a forest,
> > made up of trees. Based on our grass behavior models, we conclude that
> > such a thing is impossible, and therefore does not exist. Why, a pine
> > tree going up instantaneously 100 feet just defies all of our grass
> > behavior models, producing impossible singularities. But then someone
> > comes along and says, let's have an open mind and admit that it's
> > possible that our grass models don't fit the entire reality, and it's a
> > mistake to forever be decided otherwise. Perhaps every once in a while
> > there really is a forest, even though we can't predict where these
> > forests are. Perhaps people in the past have actually seen these
> > forests and passed on the word that they exist. Then your torturing
> > magical Daddy argument would be like saying, "But surely there can't be
> > forests, because it would be a mistake to assume the existence of a
> > torturing magical Daddy unicorn tree."
> >
> > Tom
>
> The problem with religious beliefs is not that they are bizarre (after all, many
> scientific theories at first glance are just as bizarre) but that there is no reasonable
> basis for deciding whether they are true. People usually choose religious beliefs because
> they would like them to be true or because their parents brought them up that way.
> It may be interesting to know if a religious belief makes a person happy, has inpired
> good deeds or great art, and so on, but the specific question I want answered is whether
> it is true. For example, it is true that the smallpox virus causes a severe illness which has
> killed million of people over the centuries, and this is true regardless of whether it is good,
> bad, interesting or whatever. I would like to know whether it is the case that Jesus rose from
> his tomb after being crucified or Athena sprang from Zeus' head after Hephaestus struck it
> with an axe, and I would like to know this independently of whether it makes an interesting
> or inspiring story.
>
> Stathis Papaioannou
> _________________________________________________________________
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I assume that your "problem with religious beliefs" also has to do with
the religion's claim that the object/subject of belief is an important
key to something, for instance the solution of the problem of evil. If
the bizarreness is not an issue, then simply the belief that some
contingent event happened thousands of years ago is not preposterous.
I would agree with you that whether something is true is of sole
importance to whether it is worthy of being believed. The task at hand
then would be to use our finite resources to come to a decision about
whether or not we will believe an event occurred. I agree with your
implied thought that it seems that if something key to our
understanding of the "universe" is tied to a contingent event in
history, then it would seem only fair that sufficient evidence of this
event should be accessible to us. I have found that there is. Again,
the specifics of this topic (Christianity) are probably too contingent
to get into on this List. However, in this thread, I am talking about
the fact that such a configuration (a key to understanding our
"universe" and living in it is tied to contingent events in history)
cannot be ruled out by any "proof" at the Everything level.
Furthermore, I claim that the Everything level cannot solve all of the
problems.
Tom
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Received on Mon Nov 20 2006 - 19:10:46 PST