Have a look at
http://www.csu.edu.au/special/auugwww96/proceedings/castro/castro.html
. This paper documents a technique for generating real random numbers
on unix style systems. I haven't used the technique myself, so I'm
only taking the paper's claims at face value. For all my simulations,
I've been happy to use pseudo random numbers.
Cheers
>
> Russell, I know you're director of the High Performance Computing
> Support Unit, but real computers can NOT generate random numbers, unless
> they're hooked up to a radioactive source. (In the latter case, they can
> generate numbers which appear random to us because we are uinable to predict
> which branch of the multiverse we will end up in after any given
> measurement).
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Russell Standish [SMTP:R.Standish.domain.name.hidden]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 6:03 AM
> > To: hpm.domain.name.hidden
> > Cc: everything-list.domain.name.hidden; R.Standish.domain.name.hidden.EDU.AU
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Implementation/Relativity
> >
> > >
> > > Russell Standish <R.Standish.domain.name.hidden>:
> > > > conciousness we experience directly ... generated by some kind of
> > > > self-referential process ... is intrinsically a different to
> > > > the Turing type tests we perform to attribute conciousness in
> > > > external objects.
> > > > ...
> > > > nor do I think it a particularly useful way of
> > > > thinking.
> > >
> > > But it is enormously useful for deciding whether to deal with
> > > particular robots as conscious!
> > >
> >
> > I don't see any problem in attributing consciousness to a robot that
> > convinces me that it is conscious, in just the same way as I attribute
> > consciousness to a dog. Animal consciousness such as a dogs only
> > appear to differ in degree rather than in kind to me. On the other
> > hand a supposed conscious rock would truly differ in kind, as the
> > attribution of consciousness gives us no predictive power on their
> > properties.
> >
> > I also agree with the idea that consciousness is a relative property,
> > one that is in the eye of the beholder. In the eye of this beholder,
> > "free will" is an essential property of consciousness, and its hard
> > for me to see how a Turing machine could have free will. Of course, it
> > is not necessary to construct robots from Turing machines, but most
> > likely they will be able to simulate a Turing machine, as the human
> > brain can do. I really suspect that the human brain is capable of more
> > than a Turing machine can do.
> >
> > The simplest operation I can think of that Turing machines can't do is
> > generate true random numbers (real computers can do this, albeit in
> > usually in very kludgy ways). I'm not entirely sure that the human
> > brain can generate truly random numbers either, but probably it
> > can. This is why I speculate that the random number generator may be
> > necessary and sufficient for "free will".
> >
> >
> > > Yours isn't. Your quest already has a few centuries of western
> > > philosophy of mind under its belt, and is no closer to finding the
> > > objective qualities that constitute consciousness. Like the effort
> > > to define the properties of phlogiston or the luminiferous ether,
> > > it doesn't work because its subject matter is an abstraction that
> > > changes with viewpoint.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > And you a proposing that considering rocks as conscious will help find
> > these qualities too?
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > Dr. Russell Standish Director
> > High Performance Computing Support Unit,
> > University of NSW Phone 9385 6967
> > Sydney 2052 Fax 9385 6965
> > Australia R.Standish.domain.name.hidden
> > Room 2075, Red Centre http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Russell Standish Director
High Performance Computing Support Unit,
University of NSW Phone 9385 6967
Sydney 2052 Fax 9385 6965
Australia R.Standish.domain.name.hidden
Room 2075, Red Centre
http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Wed Jul 28 1999 - 17:21:29 PDT