# Re: Are First Person prime?

From: 1Z <peterdjones.domain.name.hidden>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 03:38:11 -0700

Colin Hales wrote:
> Why is everyone talking about abstract computation? Of _course_ 1st person
> is prime = Has primacy in description of the universe.
> Being a portion of
> any structure (ME) trying to model the structure (the UNIVERSE) from within
> it (ME as scientist inside/part of the universe) is intrinsically and
> innately presented with that which is _not_ the structure of ME (NOT ME).

i.e. the third person. So the question of whether the 1st or 3rd person
is
prime boils down to whether the 3rd person can be subsumed under the
1st peron or vice versa. If I can give a 3rd-person (or 0-person)
description of
how person-ness works, I can eliminate the 1st personal.

You fact that you investigation are made by you as a person doesn't
itself entitled you to declare tha the 1st personal is basic any more
than the fact
that you are describing things in english allows you to declare
tha the universe is fundamentally an English sort of
place. What the universe fundamentally is depends on what is
the best explanation, not what is the means of explanation.

> This applies at all scales (eg ME = an atom, ME = a galaxy).

Atoms aren't persons. The 1st/3rd person contrast is not
the part/whole contrast. Most parts of the whole have
no mind, perception or awareness.

> An _abstract_ computation/model X implemented symbolically on a of a portion
> of the structure (a COMPUTER) inside the structure (the UNIVERSE) will see
> the universe as "NOT COMPUTER"

It will see it as "not THIS computer".

> , not some function of the machinations of X,
> the model. Eg The first person perspective of a register in a computer
> holding a quantity N must be that of being a register in a computer, not
> that of 'being' a quantity N.
>
> The only computation going on around us is literally the universe.

> WE are
> computations within it.
> We can only ever acquire data about it from the
> perspective of being in it.
>
> Maybe you're not talking about the same universe as me. We're trying to get
> to grips with our universe, yes? I don't get it. Then again I seem not to
> get a lot. :-)

You've lost me.

> Colin hales

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Received on Wed Aug 09 2006 - 06:40:15 PDT

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