Re: Fermi Paradox and measure

From: John M <>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:34:02 -0700 (PDT)

Ron, Bruno, et al.:

I posted a rather 'easy' URL to the subject right now.
More seriously:
Alien (extraterrestrial, extrasolarian, extragalatical
and I could add: extrauniversal (and I try to evade
that unidentifiable "life" word) "intelligence"
(though similarly hard to identify to wider consent)
HAS its potentials, just within those almost
unlimitable conditions of much wider domains than we
can know of.
SETI plans the first likely response 400+ years from
now from respondents more than 200 lightyears away. I
allow much longer within the unlikely conditions that

1. There ARE such technically/scientifically advanced
'civilizations' in the multiverse and they work by a
similar logic and similar physical setup to our radio
wave constructs we send out.

2. They reached the developmental level practically in
respondable timeframe to ours, not (easily) millions
of years earlier or later and

3. They like to respond.

The Zookeeper theory (interesting article in Wikipedia
at the site of the given URL) may be another obstacle.
A variation of such story is under writing on my 'text
considerations' and I want to include Fermi into it.

 1.5 decades ago I wrote a 'sci-fi' story about the
development of humankind on this planet, due to
aliens' scientific experiment - that failed, - with
definitely Zoo-relatable conditions. (Both the
experiment failed and my attempts to get it published:
those aliens were decent folks and I could not include
enough sex and violence to make it salable.) My story
supported the Zookeeper idea: "they" had an
energy-kind unknown in our physical system, with 3
poles (one + one - and a third one) and a direct
communication through it: mind to mind. They, however
could 'read' us. No radio-waves.
I think the Fermi paradox is just as obsolete as
became my sci-fi story over 15 years.

John Mikes

--- Bruno Marchal <> wrote:

> Le 26-juin-06, � 08:48, Ron Hale-Evans a �crit :
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Long-time listener, first-time caller.
> Welcome.
> >
> > My favourite answer to the Fermi Paradox has been
> that the aliens are
> > using nearly-perfect compression or encryption for
> their radio signals
> > (if they're using radio), and that's why all we
> can detect is noise.
> Cute.
> >
> > However, tonight another "answer" occurred to me.
> What if we're living
> > in a finite simulation? (Yes, I know we might be
> living in more than
> > one at the same time.) Supposing this simulation
> has a physical
> > substrate, and we're not in a Permutation City
> scenario, then the
> > substrate must be finite and therefore so must the
> simulation. Maybe
> > there are only enough computing resources to
> simulate the Earth and
> > environs. We don't see any aliens because none are
> being simulated.
> If we are in a digital simulation then we are in
> "Permutation City"
> scenario. We do "belong" to all possible
> simulations, and your new
> answer does no more work. The preceding one is much
> more appealing.
> And this is more true given that we can expect
> higher civilization
> trying not to perturbate lower civilization if only
> for they scientific
> studies of their alien lifes (to which we would
> belong).
> >
> > Why just the Earth and environs? Well, a finite
> simulation has to stop
> > _somewhere_. Maybe planet-sized simulations have a
> high measure
> > because they're "just the right size" for some
> purpose. I'm again
> > reminded of _Permutation City_ with the
> "Autoverse" that was really
> > just Planet Lambert and its surrounds.
> >
> > Has this "solution" to the Fermi Paradox been
> thought of before?
> > Thoughts?
> Yes, and I have already criticize similar reasoning
> (assuming comp).
> Perhaps you could see:
> But I find your first solution much more realist
> than many explanations
> of the Fermi paradox. Of course, such explanation
> belongs to the
> family of "the alien want us not knowing they are
> studying us"
> solution. There is still the problem of the rest of
> their non cryptic
> radio waves which they would have sended
> unintentionally in spaces
> without encryption at the beginning ...
> About aliens in our branch of our most probable and
> common histories, I
> have really no definite opinion and consider this as
> a complex subject.
> Bruno

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Received on Mon Jun 26 2006 - 16:35:04 PDT

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