Russell, you 'opem' and 'close' a system? Why woulod
you close it, once it is already open? and how would
you find it again, when it is closed?
And how do you assess those "closed system laws", if
no info goes in or out? (need an intelligent design?)
Is OUR time-scale valid to the inside of an unknowable
closed system? You decide as you need - see below,
I segregated the black-hole type phantasms which allow
action INTO them - and Hawkins had to make allowance
even for them to 'release' SOME information as I
understand. Well, these things are our brainchildren,
not 'ntaure's' so we identify them as we need it.
John M
--- Russell Standish <r.standish.domain.name.hidden> wrote:
>
> We can observe a closed system at two points in time
> t0, t1 say. The
> system is closed in between, but not at the point of
> observation,
> obviously.
>
> The evolution of the system between the two
> observation points must
> follow closed system laws.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 06:42:26PM -0700, John M
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Tom: one excerpt I try to address:
> >
> > "Closed system (Principia Cybernetica): An
> isolated
> > system having no
> > interaction with an environment. A system whose
> > behavior is entirely
> > explainable from within, a system without
> input..."
> > (I skip the rest, including the mathematical
> closure
> > as irrelevant for my reply).
> >
> > How do you know about such system?
> > What I mean is: if NO interaction reaches or
> leaves
> > the 'system', (it includes 'information as well)
> it
> > does
> > not even 'exist' for us. It is more than a 'black
> > hole' which is said to be receptive. A 'closed
> > no-thing'?
> >
> > John M
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Caylor" <Daddycaylor.domain.name.hidden>
> > To: "Everything List"
> > <everything-list.domain.name.hidden>
> > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 6:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: why can't we erase information?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruno Marchal wrote:
> > > Le 25-avr.-06, à 17:37, Tom Caylor a écrit :
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In fact, "closed system" and "meta element"
> seem
> > to be contradictory.
> > >
> > > Not necessarily. It could depend of what you
> mean
> > exactly by "closed".
> > > Closure for the diagonalization procedure is the
> > key. Diagonalization
> > > is the key of the "heart of the matter". I will
> come
> > back on this
> > > later.
> > >
> >
> > Closed system (Principia Cybernetica): An isolated
> > system having no
> > interaction with an environment. A system whose
> > behavior is entirely
> > explainable from within, a system without input...
> >
> > Mathematically, a closed system contains its
> boundary,
> > or it contains
> > its limit points. In other words, anything
> > expressable with the given
> > axioms/language is itself a member the system.
> > ...SKIP
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308
> 3119 (mobile)
> Mathematics 0425
> 253119 (")
> UNSW SYDNEY 2052
> R.Standish.domain.name.hidden
> Australia
> http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
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>
>
>
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Received on Tue May 02 2006 - 16:34:41 PDT