peterdjones.domain.name.hidden wrote:
>
> Georges Quenot wrote:
>> peterdjones.domain.name.hidden wrote:
>>> daddycaylor.domain.name.hidden wrote:
>>>> Georges wrote:
>>>>> - The multiverse is isomorphic to a mathematical object,
>>>> This has to be saying simply that the multiverse IS a mathematical
>>>> object.
>>>> Otherwise it is nonsense.
>>> No, because all mathematical objects, as mathematical objects
>>> exist (or don't exit) on an equal basis. Yet the universe is only
>>> isomorphic to one of them. It has real existence, as opposed
>>> to the other mathematical objects which are only abstract.
>> That is the question.
>>
>> That "[The universe] has real existence, as opposed to the
>> other mathematical objects which are only abstract." is what
>> I called a dualist view.
>
> Dualism says there are two really existing realms or substances.
> Saying the physical realm is concrete and real and the mathematical
> realm is abstract and unreal is not dualism.
This *splits* "things" into "realness" and "abstractedness".
It postulates "material substance" just as classical dualism
postulates a "spiritual substance" (and just as once vitalism
postulated a "living substance").
Last but not least: you are unable to explain what you mean
bt "real" except by a tautology or via a reference to common
sense that no longer appears to be consensual.
>> Both view seem to have their champions here. I guesse that
>> when saying "This has to be saying simply that the multiverse
>> IS a mathematical object." Tom (daddycaylor.domain.name.hidden) defends
>> the monist view as obvious and the only one making sense while
>> when saying "[The universe] has real existence, as opposed
>> to the other mathematical objects which are only abstract."
>
> Well, I've never seen a mathematical object. Have you
> ever seen the number 3?
Have you ever seen a single photon? Or even an electron?
Do you descend from the ape by your father or by your mother?
:-)
You may find the monist idea crazy or a nonsense but it does
not (completely) appear as such to everybody.
Georges.
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Received on Fri Mar 17 2006 - 02:51:06 PST