I vaguely recollect the phenomenon you mention, if I am thinking of the same
thing. The problem is that when something "goes wrong", either in a brain or
in another machine, in the vast majority of cases it will result in some
sort of dysfunction. If you took to your computer with a hammer, there is a
*tiny* chance that you will somehow improve it, or give it some new ability,
but most likely you will damage it. Having said that, the process of
evolution works in exactly this way: random errors occur, and that tiny
proportion which results in survival advantage is selected for. I have heard
of a much older theory about schizophrenia, that the kind of weird/lateral
thinking that occurs in subclinical cases (who are perhaps carriers of the
SZ gene or genes) may be responsible for the great intellectual innovations
in human history, which is why this devastating disease has not died out.
--Stathis Papaioannou
>From: "Jeanne Houston" <jeanne.houston.domain.name.hidden>
>To: "Stathis Papaioannou"
><stathispapaioannou.domain.name.hidden>,<r.standish.domain.name.hidden.edu.au>
>CC: <aet.radal.ssg.domain.name.hidden>,<everything-list.domain.name.hidden.com>
>Subject: Re: Many worlds theory of immortality
>Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 07:19:01 -0400
>
>I once read an article in, I believe, Time Magazine, about the relatively
>new field of "neurotheology" which investigates what goes on in the brain
>during ecstatic states, etc. One suggestion that intrigued me was that it
>may be possible that in such a state, and I believe that schizophrenics
>were
>also mentioned, that the brain is malfunctioning in such a way as to allow
>it to perceive states of reality other than that which the normal brain
>would perceive. In other words, the "antenna" (brain) is picking-up
>signals
>that are usually beyond the scope of the normal brain. I wondered if
>anyone
>could comment on this, and if there was any reason to even entertain the
>thought that perhaps some people have passed through a crack in the
>division
>between our universe or dimension, into perhaps another? I read this
>several years ago and wish that I could recall the details of the article,
>but I don't have it anymore.
>
>Jeanne
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <stathispapaioannou.domain.name.hidden>
>To: <r.standish.domain.name.hidden>
>Cc: <aet.radal.ssg.domain.name.hidden>; <everything-list.domain.name.hidden.com>
>Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:19 PM
>Subject: Re: Many worlds theory of immortality
>
>
> > Russell,
> >
> > To be fair, I should elaborate on my earlier post about amnesics and
> > psychotics. If I consider the actual cases I have seen, arguably they do
> > have *some* sense of the passage of time. Taking the first example,
>people
> > with severe Korsakoff Syndrome (due to chronic alcohol abuse) appear to
>be
> > completely incapable of laying down new memories. If you enter their
>room
>to
> > perform some uncomfortable medical procedure and they become annoyed
>with
> > you, all you have to do is step outside for a moment, then step back
>inside,
> > and they are all smiles again, so you can have another go at the
>procedure,
> > and repeat this as many times as you want. While you are actually in
>their
> > sight, however, they do recognise that you are the same person from
>moment
> > to moment, and they do make the connection between the needle you are
> > sticking into them and the subsequent pain, causing them to become
>annoyed
> > at you. So they do have a sense of time, even if only for a few seconds.
> >
> > The second example, the disorganised schizophrenic, is somewhat more
> > complex. There is a continuum from mild to extreme disorganisation, and
>at
> > the extreme end, it can be very difficult to get any sense of what the
> > person is thinking, although it is quite easy to get a sense of what
>they
> > are feeling and it would be very difficult to maintain a belief that
>they
> > are not actually conscious (you really have to see this for yourself to
> > understand it). Usually, even the most unwell of these patients give
>some
> > indirect indication that they maintain some sense of time. For example,
>if
> > you hold out a glass of water, they will reach for it and drink from it,
> > which suggests that they may have a theory about the future, and how
>they
> > might influence it to their advantage. Occasionally, however - and I
>have
>to
> > confess I have not actually tried the experiment - there are patients
>who
> > seem incapable of even as simple (one could say near-reflexive) a task
>as
> > grabbing a glass of water. With treatment, almost all these people
>improve,
> > and it is interesting to ask them what was happening during these
>periods.
> > Firstly, it is interesting that they actually have any recollection. It
>is
> > as if the CPU was defective, but the data was still written to the hard
> > drive, to be analysed later. They might explain that everything seemed
> > fragmented, so that although they could see and hear things, the visual
> > stimuli did not form recognisable objects and the auditory stimuli did
>not
> > form recognisable words or other sounds. Furthermore, the various
>perceptual
> > data seemed to run into each other spatially, so that it was not
>possible
>to
> > distinguish background from foreground, significant from insignificant.
> > Catatonic patients, on the other hand, may (later, when better) describe
>a
> > state of total inertia, being stuck in the present moment, unable to
>move
> > either physically or mentally, unable to even imagine a possibility of
> > change from the present state, aware of everything going on around them
>as
>a
> > kind of extended simultaneity.
> >
> > --Stathis Papaioannou
> >
> > >On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 11:02:18PM +1000, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > > > Dear aet.radal ssg,
> > > >
> > > > I think you missed my point about the amnesic and psychotic
>patients,
> > >which
> > > > is not that they are clear thinkers, but that they are conscious
>despite
> > >a
> > > > disability which impairs their perception of time. Your post raises
>an
> > >...
> > >
> > >As I said before, I think this is a valuable contribution, but not
> > >something I know how to deal with at this point in time. Presently,
> > >these psychotic patients account for only a fraction of conscious
> > >observers (assuming they are conscious as you say they are). Quantum
> > >Mechanics only requires that most observers have their own time like
> > >domain, not that all of them do. I'm still not convinced that TIME
> > >isn't a necessary property of observerhood, as opposed to a likely
> > >contingent one, but there the debate stagnates, as I'm not an expert
> > >in psychiatry.
> > >
> > >I did want to throw one more po thought. Even though standard QM is
> > >based on continuous time, nowhere does TIME require time to be
>experienced
> > >continuously. It could just as easily be the Cantor set, say. Might not
> > >the time experienced by these psychotic people be a fractal set like
> > >that, or are you saying they have absolutely no sense of time at all?
> > >
> > >Cheers
> > >
> > >--
> > >*PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which
> > >is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a
> > >virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this
> > >email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you
> > >may safely ignore this attachment.
> > >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> > >A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308 3119 (mobile)
> > >Mathematics 0425 253119 (")
> > >UNSW SYDNEY 2052 R.Standish.domain.name.hidden
> > >Australia
> > >http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
> > > International prefix +612, Interstate prefix 02
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> > ><< attach3 >>
> >
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Received on Tue May 10 2005 - 19:42:25 PDT