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From: Ron McFarland <RonMcF.domain.name.hidden>

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:35:31 -0800

Greetings again to the list. It has been a while since I posted something to think

about, and in that case I did a lot of arguing for my cause! I enjoyed it a lot, and I

hope others did too. But I again must stress that I do not rise to the level where I

can appreciate deep mathematical discussion, and so I hope that discussion on this

topic that I will now raise can be expressed by logic (I have argued before that logic

includes mathematics as a subset of logic but that logic also includes all things that

mathematics seems to have no good way to define -- because mathematics is

ultimately digital and so mathematics by its nature can only approximate the

analog). Ok, on to the topic! :)

Some experiments have indicated that gravity is associated with a force carrier, and

that this force carrier moves somewhere below or at the speed of light. Experiments

continue as the indications have not been absolutely proven. Perhaps I will be

corrected on this, but it is my understanding that a force carrier is generally thought

of as some sort of particle that transfers mass/energy between other particles.

This presents a logical problem relative to black holes. Beyond the event horizon,

nothing with mass can escape there from and make itself known to our observable

universe. Apparently every particle has at least some mass, however tiny, else a

black hole would be seen to radiate for reasons other than absorbsion of half of a

virtual particle pair. (I always had trouble with that absorbsion mechanism of black

hole evaporation, since it seemed logical to me that on the average 50% of what

gets absorbed would be matter as we know it and 50% would be anti-matter, with an

average net gain of zero absorbsion).

The only logical way that I can fathom for energy to escape from a black hole, and

express itself as gravity, is if the force carrier "particle" has absolutely no mass.

Again, perhaps I will be corrected, but it is my understanding that gravity can only

affect particles that have mass. But a "particle" expressed only as energy does not

equate with e=mc^2 (e=0 * [the speed of light squared]) because e must then = 0.

If a gravity carrier has any mass whatsoever then by what mechanism could it

possibly and in such abundance escape from a black hole event horizon and make

itself known in our observable universe?

Or could it be that gravity is, in reality, pure nothing -- that gravity is an expression

of the case where e really does = absolutely zero? Is gravity really just an attempt

by matter to interact with an absolute nothing? If so, then is a black hole really --

nothing? Could it be that gravity is expressed relative to the *inverse* of e=mc^2?

Ron McFarland

Received on Tue Feb 17 2004 - 00:36:57 PST

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:35:31 -0800

Greetings again to the list. It has been a while since I posted something to think

about, and in that case I did a lot of arguing for my cause! I enjoyed it a lot, and I

hope others did too. But I again must stress that I do not rise to the level where I

can appreciate deep mathematical discussion, and so I hope that discussion on this

topic that I will now raise can be expressed by logic (I have argued before that logic

includes mathematics as a subset of logic but that logic also includes all things that

mathematics seems to have no good way to define -- because mathematics is

ultimately digital and so mathematics by its nature can only approximate the

analog). Ok, on to the topic! :)

Some experiments have indicated that gravity is associated with a force carrier, and

that this force carrier moves somewhere below or at the speed of light. Experiments

continue as the indications have not been absolutely proven. Perhaps I will be

corrected on this, but it is my understanding that a force carrier is generally thought

of as some sort of particle that transfers mass/energy between other particles.

This presents a logical problem relative to black holes. Beyond the event horizon,

nothing with mass can escape there from and make itself known to our observable

universe. Apparently every particle has at least some mass, however tiny, else a

black hole would be seen to radiate for reasons other than absorbsion of half of a

virtual particle pair. (I always had trouble with that absorbsion mechanism of black

hole evaporation, since it seemed logical to me that on the average 50% of what

gets absorbed would be matter as we know it and 50% would be anti-matter, with an

average net gain of zero absorbsion).

The only logical way that I can fathom for energy to escape from a black hole, and

express itself as gravity, is if the force carrier "particle" has absolutely no mass.

Again, perhaps I will be corrected, but it is my understanding that gravity can only

affect particles that have mass. But a "particle" expressed only as energy does not

equate with e=mc^2 (e=0 * [the speed of light squared]) because e must then = 0.

If a gravity carrier has any mass whatsoever then by what mechanism could it

possibly and in such abundance escape from a black hole event horizon and make

itself known in our observable universe?

Or could it be that gravity is, in reality, pure nothing -- that gravity is an expression

of the case where e really does = absolutely zero? Is gravity really just an attempt

by matter to interact with an absolute nothing? If so, then is a black hole really --

nothing? Could it be that gravity is expressed relative to the *inverse* of e=mc^2?

Ron McFarland

Received on Tue Feb 17 2004 - 00:36:57 PST

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