Re: Is the universe computable?

From: Stephen Paul King <stephenk1.domain.name.hidden>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:39:04 -0500

Dear CMR,

----- Original Message -----
From: "CMR" <jackogreen.domain.name.hidden>
To: <everything-list.domain.name.hidden>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Is the universe computable


> [SPK previous]
> > The fact that an Algorithm is "independent of any particular
> > implementation" is not reducible to the idea that Algorithms (or
Numbers,
> > or
> > White Rabbits, etc.) can exist without some "REAL" resources being used
in
> > their implementation (and maybe some kind of "thermodynamics").
> >
> [CMR]
> To paraphrase Bill, that depends on what the meaning of the word "real"
is.
>
[SPK]

    Ok, how about: Reality is that which is "unimpeachable". ;-)

> [CMR]
> My point being that, if one accepts, even if only hypothetically (humor
me),
> that a (toy) universe can be modeled by a CA, then would not the
> self-consistent "physics" of the universe emerge from "following" the
rule?

[SPK]

    Ok, I will bite. ;-)

> [CMR]
> Given this, then, would not the "resources" be mapped directly only to
those
> physics and not directly to ours, even though the CA is "implemented"
> according to and via our physics. What I'm getting at here is that
"weight"
> as a function of mass and gravitation may well have no direct
correspondence
> in the CA's physics. If not, then it could be argued that the computation
> within the context of it's own universe has no "weight" (i.e: consumes no
> EXTRA-universal resources) even though the implemention of same does.
>
> Then question then becomes, I suppose, if in fact our universe is a
digital
> one (if not strictly a CA) havng self-consistent emergent physics, then
> might it not follow that it is "implemented" (run?) via some
extra-universal
> physical processes that only indirectly correspond to ours?

[SPK]

    Again, shifting the "resources problem" via a mapping to alternative
worlds is the logical equivalent of "sweeping the dirt under the rug". It
still exists!
    This reminds me of how an ameoba (the twin of Bruno's) that lives in the
bottom drawer of my refrigerator has the belief that his universe (the
inside of the refrigerator) has a "thermodynamic arrow" that is
anti-parallel (goes in the opposite direction) to the one "outside" when
ever the light goes out...
    BTW, have you ever read about the Maxwell Demon?

> [CMR]
> (if the above is too painfully obvious (or goofy?) and/or old news then,
> again, do humor me..)
>

[SPK]

    It was a good try! ;-)

Stephen
Received on Tue Jan 20 2004 - 17:50:32 PST