Re: Is the universe computable?

From: Eugen Leitl <>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:02:37 +0100

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 12:22:13PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:

> Indeed I wasn't. In general I don't like to much argue on hypotheses.

"I just say lots of stuff. I don't mean it. Please attach no significance to
what I say; it's just hot air."

> Also, I don't like to repeat to much arguments, so, if you want to argue

"You're too dumb to get it, and I won't waste time explaining it to you."

Now I might be mistaken, but these are not nice attitudes. Expecially, if
taken together.

> please look at the links to the UDA (Universal Dovetailer Argument) in my
> web page (url below). Those are links to this very list.

I went there, and looked. First impression: lots of opaque lingo. This isn't
not necessarily bad in itself, but usually only mature fields develop
specialist languages. Quacks and kooks are known to use pseudospecialist
language, too.

I'll come back to you after I've actually tied to understand what it says.
I'm not sure it's worth my time, but I respect many people on this list, who
haven't come down on your argumentation, so maybe I'm wrong.

> ('course, in case you know french you can read my thesis).

Once, upon a time, the language of science was Latin. Then, it used to be

Now, it is usually a very good idea to formulate your ideas in English, because it's
what any literate person in the world can be expected to understand,

> Now I am not sure you will be interested because I *assume* Arithmetical
> Realism AR (I put it in the definition of the computationalist hyp.) and it
> seems
> you consider that hypothesis as a "glib" (whatever that means: it is not in
> my dictionary but I can infer the sense.).

7 entries found for glib.
glib ( P ) Pronunciation Key (glb)
adj. glib·ber, glib·best

         1. Performed with a natural, offhand ease: glib conversation.
         2. Showing little thought, preparation, or concern: a glib response
to a complex question.
   2. Marked by ease and fluency of speech or writing that often suggests or
stems from insincerity, superficiality, or deceitfulness.

[Possibly of Low German origin. See ghel-2 in Indo-European Roots.]glibly
glibness n.

    Synonyms: glib, slick, smooth-tongued
    These adjectives mean being, marked by, or engaging in ready but often
insincere or superficial discourse: a glib denial; a slick commercial; a
smooth-tongued hypocrite.

[Buy it]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


\Glib\, v. t. [Cf. O. & Prov. E. lib to castrate, geld, Prov. Dan. live, LG.
& OD. lubben.] To castrate; to geld; to emasculate. [Obs.] --Shak.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


\Glib\, a. [Compar. Glibber; superl. Glibbest.] [Prob. fr. D. glibberen,
glippen, to slide, glibberig, glipperig, glib, slippery.] 1. Smooth;
slippery; as, ice is glib. [Obs.]

2. Speaking or spoken smoothly and with flippant rapidity; fluent; voluble;
as, a glib tongue; a glib speech.

I want that glib and oily art, To speak and purpose not. --Shak.

Syn: Slippery; smooth; fluent; voluble; flippant.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


\Glib\, v. t. To make glib. [Obs.] --Bp. Hall.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


\Glib\, n. [Ir. & Gael. glib a lock of hair.] A thick lock of hair, hanging
over the eyes. [Obs.]

The Irish have, from the Scythians, mantles and long glibs, which is a thick
curied bush of hair hanging down over their eyes, and monstrously disguising
them. --Spenser.

Their wild costume of the glib and mantle. --Southey.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


adj 1: marked by lack of intellectual depth; "glib generalizations"; "a glib
response to a complex question" 2: having only superficial plausibility;
"glib promises"; "a slick commercial" [syn: pat, slick] 3: artfully
persuasive in speech; "a glib tongue"; "a smooth-tongued hypocrite" [syn:
glib-tongued, smooth-tongued]

> Btw I have not perceived your argument against AR. You just keep repeating
> that something abstract can exist only if some piece of matter apply it.

Yeah, information doesn't exist without a material carrier. If you claim to
do computation, please stick to constraints of computational physics.

Universe may very well consist of information; show why you claim to have
insight in the architecture of the metalayer.

> Giving that I don't take "matter" as granted (it's exactly what I try to
> explain) and

Are you trying to do science, or religion?

> giving that the word "apply" could only be used in an analogical, fuzzy or
> anthropomorphical way, it is hard to figure out where your argument relies.
> To be honest I don't like at all your tone which only witnesses the fact
> that you
> have decided in advance what to think about this point. I guess David is
> right
> when he says that you seem to be getting a little hot under the collar!

Yeah, I have only a very low tolerance for bullshit.

> About AR I did send a quote by the mathematician HARDY which sums up
> quite well my feeling about it. You can take a look at:

"I stand in direct contact with the basic fabric of reality, because I'm a
mathematician. Bow before me, for I see the mind of God".

Sorry, that's extremely weak, even for a mathematician.

-- Eugen* Leitl <a href="">leitl</a>
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

Received on Wed Jan 14 2004 - 07:05:28 PST

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