Re: 2C Mary - How minds perceive things and "not things"

From: R Hlywka <>
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:16:59 -0400

Just a note. Think of a brain more than just an intake valve, reacting to
similar stuff, and not so similar stuff. There are so many things we need to
take into consideration. Genetics. We are born with a specific preprogramed
set of organization and hardware. the way the neurons are preorganized, and
the way they go about utilizing and organizing and transfering specific
information. We are predisposed if you will. However, there's also nurture.
Even from starting in the womb, we recieve biorythms of our mother, which
our whole body sets to. What she ingests, the anxieties she feels. We feel.
Not that it's a good or bad thing. BEcause I would seriously wonder what
would happen to a child born in the matrix with no combination of Biorythms
to build on, it would be like being born empty. that would be your "clean
slate", aside from the genes aspect. Next you have the BIO aspect of our
hardware. It ain't plastic and metal. It moves and changes and grows.
Continuously. There are specific pieces that are formed in seperate parts of
the brain... But that is merely predisposed grow pattern. meaning, our whole
brain can actually do every tasks that our parts do for us, but through
evolution, we have managaed to pick up certain precoded hardware forms, if
you will, that are wired and organized to preform certain ways. Then you get
the whole consciousness/unconsiousness, combined with your intact of outside
stimuli, including ingested foods/toxins. That all combines to decide what
will go on with your brain.... You brain is so much more than a computer..
think of it like a galaxy or even it's own universe. It's predisposed to be
a certain way. and even if you take out all outside stimuli, it is still
on... and it will still process and continue changing and revolving without
anything. each of it's pieces will change , and work around each of them...
kinda like the conservation of angular momentum, and the way galaxies get
all squished... but it's SO MUCH MORE. then you add in ONE factor, and
everything is changed. EVERYTHING..... but this is where you get a smart
galaxy. it can learn to filter out what it feels it does not need to PAY
ATTENTION TO. It can forget it. It will all get in on some level mind you.
It will process subliminal messages ect. But it still has the capacity to
realize what to listen to and what not to. If it has already realized that
performing X is imorral and wrong, you send it x subliminally, it will not
suddenly prefrom X... unless you bypass all the wiring, switch to rightbrain
processing, tell it to either run on auto pilot, or put in some information
to reorganize the way the mind percieves X as being Okay to preform or not.
The point? I don't know, just giving you guys some info on brains.. To
actually copy one would be NEAR TO IMPOSSIBLE. unless you could copy the
position of everysingle neuron and chemical within the brain and send it.
One wrong positioned neuron, one lost connection... you have a different
person. ... Mind you, one may not make THAT big of a difference... may be as
light as having a beer or not. But if you repostion a pathway by mistake.
Who knows what could happen....

This all brings up more questions. What about memory transfer. We code our
memory by the continious rearangement of pathways. Unless you could copy the
coding and rearrangement, decode it by that persons CODING... then figure
out the next persons coding. and recoded the information, then force their
brain the ralign... it seems impossible. We are each different. to put in
someones else thought into me, for example. I may just remember my childhood
in a different light. because it would be reacting to my chemicals, my
preexisting knowledge, and my makeup of my nuerons, and how they preform.
you would have to develop a way for the brain to learn to accept and digest
incoming brain knowlegde.
Not that it's not possible. We just have to learn it. and to learn something
we are not predisposed for, takes a long time. it's like takeing a CD, and
continuingly puting it in your microwave and hoping that when you push the
microwave buttons, that instead of Frying the CD and catching the mircowave
on fire, it will somehoe recognize that a CD is there and mutate to learn
how to digest it. Mind you the microwave is made of mental.. the brain is

Not saying it's impossible. the brain would just have to learn some new ways
of coding.

Which brings to mention... how many other ways of CODING are there? I mean,
our brain has evolved to the point to where it is now, and it has learned to
coded certain things certain ways now BY INSTINCT.... but what if we could
use our actual processing ability, to realize the next step in eveolution,
and train our brains to make the change itself?... The only reason why were
aren't doing it, is because we aren't forced to. If we can find it. then
offer the brain a route to form around it, who knows what could happen...
It's in a sense... finding the best optimal way to process information...
then teaching the brain to process that way.... The best step would be to
teach the brain to evolve and process subconsciously... instead of
consciously by my deciding to write you guys, and prepose such an idea.

Anywayz, have fun digesting...
Rich. 4th year psychology. Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, Ontario,

>The real question is the ontological status of the 'nothing' in that
>last sentence. I am starting to believe that the true nature of the
>'fundamental' beneath qualia is not only about the 'stuff', but is
>actually about all of it. That is, the 'stuff' and the 'not stuff'.
>So. Anyone care to comment on the ontological status of 'not thing'?
I believe our brains and minds are "difference engines".

What they do is respond in a feedback loop with perceptual signals in such a
way as to
continually sort things, by the single rule of "this is more different from
that than it is from that",
so I'll represent that comparative level of difference (in a compact way
that can be stored and retrieved

In other words, it organizes its internal representation of "what's out
there" so
that the "more different, less different" relations between representational
symbols in the brain
are as close as possible to mirroring the "more different, less different"
relations among chunks
of "reality". Objects in the world, for example, are individuated (their
boundaries from other objects
determined, and thus the extent that their identity applies to) on the basis
of a rigorously
mathematical, and simple, algorithm of "these are the best clusters of all
kinds of similarities"
and their boundaries are where the most differences (of many kinds) occur.

This individuation by difference-measurement applies equally well when
turned inward on itself
to create abstract theories of abstract domains (e.g. higher math and logic,
language about thoughts).

I would contend that notions like abstraction into
generalization-specialization hierarchies of
"noun" and "verb" ("thing" and "relationship") concepts emerge spontaneously
if you simply
mix a "represent the differences" principle with an "achieve most compact
representation" principle.

So what does all this musing about conceptualization of the world have to do
with the world
(universe) itself, or what that universe really "is" ? That's a hard one.

The best I could come up with is that the "multiverse" or "plenitude" is
"the capacity for
all differences and configurations of differences to manifest themselves."
Most parts of that
will be "ungrokable" by brains like ours because only those parts which have
configurations of differences exhibiting space-time-like locality, energy,
matter etc which
behave within limits that allow formation of emergent systems of "bigger",
simple configurations of differences will be observable universes (to
difference-engine brains
like ours that were lucky enough to emerge as one of those emergent systems
in a
hospitable energy regime.

Or Whatever.

    "We are all in the gutter,
     but some of us are looking at the stars."
          - Oscar Wilde
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
Received on Wed Jun 04 2003 - 11:18:35 PDT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Fri Feb 16 2018 - 13:20:08 PST