Re: Transporter Paradox

From: <>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:45 +0000

You should definitely read Russell's book on Liebnitz. A monad is like an observer moment: self-contained and not able to interact with the infinite number of other monads.

----Original Message-----
    From: rwas rwas <>
    Subject: Re: Transporter Paradox
    Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:58 PM
> "Prove" is a strong word. I don't think you can
> prove that we perceive
> 3-space...
    I guess it depends on what you mean by "perceive".
    If I develop software that behaves a certain way in
    3-space combining observations, a plan, and then
    demonstrating an action in that 3-space, I'd say that
    system perceives in 3-space.
    If I take a black box and train it to do the same
    thing, without knowing anything about how the blackbox
    internals are implemented, I'd still say that system
    perceives 3-space.
    In the pleasure example, one can perceive pleasurable
    acts in this realm. They can do so without being
    limited to experiencing pleasure in this realm. I
    would argue that pleasure is not a law limited to the
    physical realm.
    Likewise, one can perceive in 3-space without being of
    it. What I mean here is that we may observe or deduce
    physical facilities (in the human body) for perceiving
    3-space. It does not mean one perceives 3-space as a
    result of, and only-because-of that facility.
    You might observe these things or facilities (physical
    mechanisms) and assume that's how such abilities can
    be. I'd argue these things are apparent, and provide
    an interface between one realm and another.
    One might consider software operating in a computer.
    The machine is the mechanism used to animate the
    software. The software's operation implies and
    expresses a logical (usually) intent of the
    programmer. So we have three layers of expression. One
    is mechanical, one is descriptive (software itself),
    and one is the actual intent of the programmer (what
    it does). We can say that the entity formed at the 3rd
    layer (what it does) is not bound to what lies beneath
    it. We could say (similarly to what some sculptors
    say) that it was always there (what it does), and the
    software and the machine it runs on, simply revealed
    it. I would further say, that not only is the act of
    writing the software and running it simply revealing
    something that was already there, but it reveals it
    *here* (physical) from somewhere else (non-physical
> you can only observe behavior (careful!
> are you assuming
> 3-space in which to observe).
    What is it to "observe" in a non-temporal realm?
    If a behavior is expressed non-temporally, you have a
    static picture (crude approximation). Then did the
    person producing the behavior create that picture? Or
    did they simply journey to a place where it already
    existed? If so, why can't an observer do the same? If
    he can, what is observation?
> On the other hand
> there is plenty of
> non-verbal as well as verbal evidence for pain and
> pleasure (avoidance,
> attraction...)
    I ment to say, that you may stimulate what is widely
    considered pleasure in someone, and they might elect
    to say that the stimulus is pleasurable.
    You might observe or deduce and test the apparent
    physical mechanisms for that pleasure.
    What I am saying is that you can associate the two by
    apparent cause and effect, but cannot prove the
    physical mechanism is the reason for the pleasure
    experienced by the consciousness of the person
> our thinking in this
> > consciousness
> physical existence tends to express
> > things
> I can make no sense of these phrases. You seem to
> have in mind the
> monads of Leibnitz or Bertrand Russell.
    "our thinking in *this* consciousness.."
    I am using the term consciousness in terms of a
    vehicle. So our thinking in *this* vehicle.
    In other words:
    One's thoughts in a timeless-consciousness can be
    organized as a temporal stream of descrete thought
    "physical existence tends to express things.."
>From a mystic standpoint, the physical realm is just
    one place out of many, with it's own characteristics.
    One can take a a thing that is manifest in one place
    one way, and bring it into the physical and have it
    manifest another way.
    So in other words:
    Consciousness, normally timeless in expression, can be
    manifest in the physical realm. In doing so (do to the
    temporal nature of the physical realm) consciousness
    tends to express temporally as well.
> You seem to
> have in mind the
> monads of Leibnitz or Bertrand Russell.
    I have no idea who those people are, nor do I have any
    clue what a "monad" is. :)
    Robert W.
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Received on Sun Apr 01 2001 - 23:25:01 PDT

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