Re: Natural selection (spinoff from "History-less observer moments")

From: Jacques Mallah <>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:03:53 EDT

>From: Russell Standish <>
>Jacques Mallah wrote:
> > It is clear that we don't think the same way. M(x) is simply the
>total measure of observations with the characteristic x. M(x|y), on the
>other hand, is undefined since "observer" is undefined. I don't understand
>what you mean by M(x|z).
> > For the sake of others who may have forgotten, I'll describe again
>what is involved. The problem is to compare the measaure of 1) x = "you
>are the product of Darwinian evolution" and 2) x' = "you are the direct
>result of (quantum or thermal) 'random fluctuations'". Presumably, x and
>x' would be seen by different 'observers' if that was defined.

>Not at all. The question is: "Given you are a conscious observer, compare
>the measures of x and x'". The observer is the same in both cases and all
>we know about the observer is the property of consciousness.

    I don't know what you mean. First, by "given you are a conscious
observer", I think you must mean that you are comparing the measures
M(x|you) and M(x'|you).
    Part of the problem is you still haven't defined "observer". I don't
see how the observer could be the same in both cases, but then I don't know
what the term "observer" is supposed to mean.
    Suppose I see a guy named Harry, who verifiably came into being due to
'random fluctuations'. Surely, whatever is meant by 'Harry', that is one of
his characteristics and it's what makes him so popular at parties.

> > As you know, I'd sum over all implementations in the
>multi-multiverse to find a measure.
>The problem is that this sum does not converge, because the
>information content of the summed quantity must be zero.

    We've been over this. The sum is infinite, but that doesn't mean ratios
are ambiguous if you do it right. As far as the info content being zero,
that has zero relevance.

>Without a proper theory of consciousness, either side of the debate is
>equally consistent, just mutually contradictory choices of axioms.

    Glad you think my side is self-consistent. I don't think yours is.

                         - - - - - - -
               Jacques Mallah (
         Physicist / Many Worlder / Devil's Advocate
"I know what no one else knows" - 'Runaway Train', Soul Asylum
         My URL:

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
Received on Fri Jun 16 2000 - 16:14:09 PDT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Fri Feb 16 2018 - 13:20:07 PST