On 25 Apr 2009, at 21:17, Kelly wrote:
>
> On Apr 24, 2:41 am, Brent Meeker <meeke....domain.name.hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the materialist view, my mental state is just the
>>> state of the particles of my brain at that instant.
>>
>> I think we need some definition of "state".
>
> Hmmm. Well, I think my view of the word is pretty much the dictionary
> definition. Though there are two different meanings in play here.
>
> The physical state:
>
> "the condition of matter with respect to structure, form,
> constitution, phase, or the like"
>
> And the mental state:
>
> "a particular condition of mind or feeling"
... and computational states.
Then assuming comp, you can attribute a mental state to a
computational state, and then you must attribute an infinity of
computational states to a mind state.
>
>
> Though ultimately I'm saying that there is no actual physical world
> that exists outside of and independent from our perceptions. You and
> I probably perceive a very similar world, but there other conscious
> observers who perceive very different worlds. But all worlds are
> virtual worlds that exist only inside the minds of conscious platonic
> observers. And I base this conclusion on the line of thought laid out
> in my previous posts.
This is close to the consequence of comp.
>
>
>
>> If we discretize your brain, say slice it into Planck
>> units of time as Jason suggested, now we need to
>> have something to connect one state to another.
>
> Why do we need to have something extra to connect one state to
> another? What does this add, exactly?
I would say this goes along with the very (mathematical) definition of
what a computational state is.
>
>
> I think that these instances of consciousness are like pieces from a
> picture puzzle. But not a jigsaw picture puzzle...instead let's say
> that each puzzle piece is perfectly square, and they combine to make
> the full picture.
>
> How do you know where each piece fits into the overall picture? By
> the contents of the image fragment that is on each puzzle piece.
>
> So each puzzle piece has, contained within it, the information that
> indicates it's position in the larger framework. The same is true of
> instances of consciousness.
Nice image. With comp the same image admits an infinity of pieces
though.
>
>
> Based on how well the edges of their "images" line up, you can get
> some idea about the relationship between two instances of
> consciousness.
>
>
>> In idealism, the content of a state consciousness (a Planck slice,
>> not
>> of a brain, but of a stream of consciousness) seems to me to be very
>> small
>
> Well, I'm not sure how much of the brain's information is needed to
> represent a particular state of consciousness. But I don't think that
> it's a crucial question. My answer is: more than none of it, but
> less-than-or-equal-to all of it. Somewhere in that range. Ha!
>
>
>> You say it is
>> connected by the correlation of information content, but is that
>> unique? Is there a best or most probable next state or what?
>
> So I guess I'm taking the position of "extreme platonism" here. The
> result is, I suppose, indistinguishable from that of modal realism.
>
> All possible "next states" exist. None of them are "best" or "more
> probable" than any other. Every possible future lies ahead of you,
> and some version of you will experience each one of them. There will
> be a version of you that never sees anything that strikes you as
> unusual and who says "the universe is very normal, and this all makes
> perfect sense, and how could it be any other way. These people who
> advocate extreme platonism are crazy, because it doesn't match what I
> observe."
>
> But, there will also be a version of you who never has a normal
> experience again. For eternity you will go from strange experience to
> strange experience. And this version will say, "ah, ya, Kelly was
> right about that extreme platonism thing."
>
> And there will be all points between the two extremes.
And thus there is a measure problem. We agree?
>
>
> Though, I think that this view does make a testable prediction. Which
> is: there will be no end to your experiences. There is no permanent
> first person death.
OK, but such first person experience are excluded from the scientific
thought. We can talk about scientifically. My point is that comp
entails also verifiable:refutable physical facts.
>
>
> Of course, many realities will be unpleasant enough that this isn't
> necessarily a good thing. All good things lie before you. But so do
> all bad things. Blerg.
Yet, we have partial control, we can do things which change our
relative measure. It is useful when we want drink coffee, to give an
example.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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Received on Sun Apr 26 2009 - 16:40:26 PDT