On 22 Apr 2009, at 20:41, Jason Resch wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 1:55 AM, Kelly <harmonk00.domain.name.hidden> wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 21, 11:31 am, Bruno Marchal <marc....domain.name.hidden> wrote:
>>> We could say that a state A access to a state B if there is a
>>> universal machine (a universal number relation) transforming A
>>> into B.
>>> This works at the ontological level, or for the third person point
>>> of
>>> view. But if A is a consciousness related state, then to evaluate
>>> the
>>> probability of personal access to B, you have to take into account
>>> *all* computations going from A to B, and thus you have to take into
>>> account the infinitely many universal number relations
>>> transforming A
>>> into B. Most of them are indiscernible by "you" because they differ
>>> below "your" substitution level.
>>
>> So, going back to some of your other posts about "transmitting" a
>> copy
>> of a person from Brussels to Moscow. What is it that is transmitted?
>> Information, right? So for that to be a plausible scenario we have
>> to
>> say that a person at a particular instant in time can be fully
>> described by some set of data.
>>
>> It would seem to me that their conscious state at that instant must
>> be
>> recoverable from that set of data. The only question is, what
>> conditions must be met for them to "experience" this state, which is
>> completely described by the data set? I don't see any obvious reason
>> why anything additional is needed. What does computation really add
>> to this?
>>
>
> I think I agree with this, that consciousness is created by the
> information associated with a brain state, however I think two things
> are missing:
>
> The first is that I don't think there is enough information within a
> single Plank time or other snapshot of the brain to constitute
> consciousness. As you mention below, under the view of block time,
> the brain, and all other things are four-dimensional objects.
> Therefore the total information composing a moment of conscious may be
> spread across some non-zero segment of time.
>
> The second problem is immediately related to the first. Lets assume
> that there is consciousness within a 10 second time period, so we make
> a recording of someone's brain states across 10 seconds and store it
> in some suitable binary file. The question is: Are there any logical
> connections between successive states when stored in this file? I
> would think not.
>
> When the brain state is embedded in block time, the laws of physics
> serve as a suitable interpreter which connect the information spread
> out over four-dimensions, but without computer software running the
> stored brain state, there is no interpreter for the information when
> it is just sitting on the disk. I think this is the reason some of us
> feel a need to have information computed as opposed to it simply
> existing.
I mainly agree. I add that once we assume comp the laws of physics
themselves are emerging on information processing. That such an
information processing is purely arithmetico-logical, or combinator-
logical. No need for substances. Consciousness, time, energy and space
are internal constructs.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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Received on Thu Apr 23 2009 - 16:23:46 PDT