Hi,
2009/2/26 Bruno Marchal <marchal.domain.name.hidden>
>
> On 23 Feb 2009, at 17:15, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
>
> 2009/2/23 Bruno Marchal <marchal.domain.name.hidden>
>
>>
>>
>> The copy could be you in the deeper sense that it could be you even in
>> the case where he loses some memory, all memories, or in case he got
>> new memories, including false souvenirs. But then it is like in the
>> movie "the prestige", your brother can be you. This path leads to the
>> idea that we are already all the same person. It is "not being the
>> other" which is an illusion in that case. I don't insist on this
>> because we don't need to see that arithmetic is the theory of
>> everything (and that physics comes from there). But it is needed for
>> the "other hypostases" and the whole theological point.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
>>
>>
> If the "copy" has no memory of being me then It's not me...
>
>
>
> Memory is very important, and play an important role about what is to have
> a normal personal life and history. But it could be that it is not a
> necessary (nor sufficient criteria of personal identity. After all, when
> someone get amnesic after a car crash, we don't say that such a person has
> died, but we say he or she has lost his or her memory.
>
>
>
>From my current point of view... Well I would be dead... the "me/I" which is
writing this.
>
>
>
> or you mean there is something which is not memory but which is "me" (and
> render memory useless as primary property of the self) ?
>
>
>
> I think this is possible. I think the answer does not depend of comp. Comp
> is consistent with many incompatible answer. Actually I believe that
> personal identity is a very deeply personal matter. I identify myself more
> with moral values and attitudes, not really with memories, which are useful
> for many practical things, indeed capable of implementing those values, but
> the values are more eternal than their relative local and contingent
> incarnation or implementation.
>
>
There is no identity without memories... makes no sense to me.
>
>
>
>
>
> It is a matter of semantic but if you accept that memory is not what can be
> ascribe to "you" then "you/I/..." doesn't mean anything... in that sense you
> are me and vice-versa, and everyone is everyone but I don't see this as a
> theory of self identity.
>
>
>
>
> Personal identity and memory could be a useful fiction for living. Here I
> was alluding to possible deeper sense of the self, which makes me conceive
> that indeed there is only one person playing a trick to itself. Like if our
> bodies where just disconnected windows giving to that unique person the
> ability to have a sort of stereoscopic view on reality.
>
If "I" with my memories happen to have no next moment with my memories... I
will be dead, and no cul-de-sac is false... a next moment where none of your
memories is left is no more a next moment.
>
> In some dreams, I have very different memories, yet "I" was there, and "I"
> was me. To get amnesic, even irreversibly, is not dying, even if it is a big
> impediment in practical life, and it should be avoided, unless it is
> reversible (and then it procure an interesting experience (the main reason i
> am fascinated by nocturnal dreams, and since recently, in salvia reports).
>
You know it was you because you did wake up as you... you didn't know inside
the dream... note that I'm not even sure we have of sense of self while
dreaming, I accept we have it during a recollection of the dream.
>
> Memories, like body and brain are things we possess, and this means, I
> think, that we can still survive without them.
>
I think not.
>
> Suppose that I die tomorrow, and that sometimes after someone find a backup
> of "me" at the age of five, so that "I" am reconstituted from that backup.
> Would you say I am dead, or would you say that I have survived, only with a
> severe sort of amnesy ?
>
You will be dead.
>
> Best,
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
>
>
> Regards,
Quentin
--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
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Received on Thu Feb 26 2009 - 12:41:26 PST