Re: [Fwd: NDPR David Shoemaker, Personal Identity and Ethics: A Brief Introduction]

From: Bruno Marchal <>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:55:45 +0100

On 25 Feb 2009, at 03:39, russell standish wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 05:51:49PM -0800, meekerdb
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Bruno Marchal <>
>> wrote:
>>> Exactly (assuming comp). That is even the reason why amnesia can led
>>> to fusion of first persons.
>>> And given that there is (or should be) a notion of first person
>>> plural, with duplication of collection of people, there must be in
>>> "nature" a similar fusion process, and quantum erasing phenomenon is
>>> the normal candidate.
>>> Bruno
>>> <
>>> >
>> It is the potential "fusion" that bothers me. It would seem to
>> imply that
>> after Stathis and I have a simultaneous moment of thinking of
>> nothing our
>> "closest continuations" might be mixtures, each having some memories
>> belonging to Stathis and some belonging to me. But this doesn't
>> seem to
>> occur - which we easily explain in terms of the causal continuity
>> of the
>> brain.
>> Brent
> Perhaps you're not really thinking nothing after all. I have already
> stated that we must be self-aware to be conscious, otherwise we suffer
> the Occam catastrophe. The sense of ego would be enough to explain why
> you don't merge with Stathis.
> Not being a Salvia user though, I'd like to ask the question - does
> the
> ensuing amnensia (whilst remaining conscious) extend to erasure of the
> ego?

It depends of course of what you mean by the "ego". "Ego Death" is a
well discussed topic in Entheogen Forums, especially on Salvia, but
also DMT.
If by "ego" you mean the "terrestrial self" I would say yes.

I think we do similar experiences in the "deep sleep" (= the non REM
sleep), but like with Salvia, it seems we have to forget the main
point to "come back on Earth". Even the part which we don't forget is
"ineffable", probably of the type G* minus G, or more accurately Z*
minus Z, or even more accurately: X1* minus X1 (cf your Nothing book
page 129)


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Received on Wed Feb 25 2009 - 04:55:58 PST

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