Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2009/1/14 Brent Meeker <meekerdb.domain.name.hidden
> <mailto:meekerdb.domain.name.hidden>>
>
>
> Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > 2009/1/14 Brent Meeker <meekerdb.domain.name.hidden
> <mailto:meekerdb.domain.name.hidden>> wrote:
> >
> >> However a Turing machine is not just a set of states, it also
> requires a
> >> set of transition rules. So in the same abstract way that the
> integers
> >> are ordered by "succession" the computational states of a Turing
> machine
> >> are ordered. Whether just abstract rules, without
> implementation, are
> >> sufficient isn't clear to me.
> >
> > In an actual physical computer the transition rules are
> represented by
> > the causal links between the states, so that a particular input will
> > reliably give rise to a particular output. But I return to my
> question
> > about what would happen if there were a discontinuity in a
> sequence of
> > states, so that s1 to s10 on m1 are causally linked, s11 to s20 on m2
> > are causally linked, but there is no link between m1 and m2, i.e. m2
> > just happens to start in s11 accidentally. Assuming that s1 to s20
> > occurring in a single machine results is a few moments of
> > consciousness (which is to say, assuming that computationalism is
> > true), what would happen if the sequence is broken in the way just
> > described?
>
> I suspect something is lost. You are thinking of the states as
> abstract steps
> in a computer program. But a computer program requires a computer
> to run and
> the computer implements distributed spatiotemporal links. In
> general you cannot
> take even a digitial computer and freeze it in a instant of time,
> call that a
> state, and restart it without any effects.
>
>
> I do not see a problem with that... a program can be freezed any time...
> dump the memory to a file
The abstract program, consisting of a set of steps can be stopped at any "time"
(i.e. at a step), but a computer running a program cannot just be stopped. What
your are contemplating is having the operating system copy the values of various
registers to a some memory file and then stop.
>, on restart, load the dump file to memory, put
> the instruction pointer at the correct place and you're done. (well in
> practice it is a little more difficult, but you could do it for *any*
> program).
But have you ever cut the power to your computer while it was running? ;-)
Brent
>In the situation that Stathis describe, causality is not
> broken in any way. S1->S10 run in computer 1, dump, reload on computer 2
> S11->S20 run in computer 2, the causal link is given by the program that
> compute S1-S20 irrelevant on what physical device it is running on...
> the causal link is the program and a program is relative to a machine
> (abstract one). So a computation is the set of a program and the machine
> that runs it. A state doesn't exists by itself (state of what ?), and
> this is where Stathis is wrong I think.
>
> Regards,
> Quentin
>
>
> Switches are in intermediate states,
> EM waves are propagating, electrons are diffusing - it is not a
> static thing
> like a step in a program.
>
> In terms of Bruno's teleporter, one might say yes accepting that
> there would be
> a one-time gap in consciousness (ever had a concussion?), but one
> would probably
> hesitate if the there was to be a gap every 10ms.
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
>
> >
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Received on Wed Jan 14 2009 - 13:17:49 PST