Thanks for providing me with even more motivations for MGA 3.
I will try to do it as soon as possible. It could time because I am
hesitating on the best way to proceed. I know that what is obvious for
some is not for others, and vice versa ... That is why we do proof, to
met universal criteria.
Bruno
Le 25-nov.-08, à 11:25, Russell Standish a écrit :
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:28:45PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>
>>
>> Le 24-nov.-08, à 02:39, Russell Standish a écrit :
>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 03:59:02PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would side with Kory that a looked up recording of conscious
>>>>> activity is not conscious.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you. The point here is just that MEC+MAT implies it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This I don't follow. I would have thought it implies the opposite.
>>
>>
>> MGA 1 shows that MEC+MAT implies lucky Alice is conscious (during the
>> exam). OK?
>> MGA 2 shows that MEC+MAT implies Alice is dreaming (and thus
>> conscious)
>> when the film is projected. OK?
>
> Right - I think we had a breakdown in communication. I thought you
> were asserting the opposite
>
>> I take the "looked recording" as identical (with respect to the
>> reasoning) with a projection of the movie.
>>
>> Of course I don't believe that a projection of a filmed computation is
>> conscious 'qua computatio". It is so absurd that sometimes I end the
>> Movie Graph Argument here. I mean I consider this equivalent to false,
>> and thus as enough for showing COMP+MAT implies false.
>> MGA 3 is intended for those who believes that the movie can be
>> conscious qua computatio.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>
> The movie, in this case, is a very precise recording of the states of
> all of Alice's neurons and their interactions. Why wouldn't it be
> conscious? Someone once said to you "don't confuse the territory with
> the map" - and you very sagely asked "what if the map is so detailed
> it is indistinguishable from the territory".
>
> A popular representation of the universe is a block universe, where
> all events exist in a 4D static representation that is forever
> timeless. A block universe contains conscious entities, who perceive
> time etc., at least according to your usual die hard materialist,
> don't you think? How does a block universe differ from your movie
> though?
>
> Note it is important not to rely on our intuition here. None of us has
> experience of movies with the level of resolution been discussed
> here. High definition movies are distinctly lame by comparison.
>
> I guess I'll need MGA3!
>
>
> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Mathematics
> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 hpcoder.domain.name.hidden
> Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
>
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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Received on Tue Nov 25 2008 - 06:04:06 PST