On Nov 12, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> First, I have never stop to work on that and try to share the argument
> with people interested in the matter.
True. You're tireless! (That's a complement.)
> Second, it happens that sometimes I think the burden his on him to
> tell us what he means by a physical universe.
I totally agree. But most people will just wave their arms and say,
"What do you mean? We're obviously in a physical universe. What's
problematic about that?" And then the burden is back on us to explain
why the concept of "physical existence" is more problematic than it
seems. Burden Tennis.
> It is not a question of taste. It is a question of acknowledging use
> of logic and assumptions, and finding either hidden assumptions, or
> imprecise statements or invalid argument step(s).
I see your point. But there are issues of clarity or focus, and to
some extent those are a matter of taste. I'd like to read an essay (by
anyone) that lays out a clear argument in favor of the position that
computations don't need to be implemented in order to be conscious. I
believe this argument can be made without reference to Loebian
machines, first-person indeterminacy, or teleportation thought-
experiments.
I hope you don't find my criticism too annoying. It's easy for me to
sit on the sidelines and take potshots, while you've done a lot of
actual work. And remember that I do, in fact, believe that
computations don't need to be implemented in order to be conscious, so
you're usually preaching to the choir with me. My point is that, I can
imagine Dennett reading your posts, and saying "Ok, that makes sense
*if* we accept that computations don't need to be implemented in order
to be conscious. But I still don't see why I should believe that."
I guess what it comes down to is that the Movie Graph Argument on its
own doesn't seem fully convincing to me. But it's quite possible that
I don't fully understand that argument. (I have my own reasons for
believing that computations don't need to be implemented in order to
be conscious, and sometimes I think some of them are functionally
equivalent to the MGA, but I'm not sure.) Where is the clearest
statement of the MGA?
-- Kory
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Received on Wed Nov 12 2008 - 18:17:00 PST