On 24/10/2008, at 8:44 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>
>> Wonder is more of a feeling though - don't need wonder as a survival
>> mechanism
>
> I can imagine wonder having survival value for highly evolved
> organisms like the homo sapiens. It is the driving force behind great
> scientists and engineers. It's an emotion that drive us to want to
> decode reality. The knowledge gathered in this process allows us, for
> example, to build better tools. I believe there's an interplay between
> biological and social evolution (the Baldwin effect). As society
> becomes more and more complex, new emotions evolve to guide the
> adaption of its individuals.
>
>> Artists love to 'intellectualise' about their inner qualia. They have
>> distinctions others find forced or artificial
>>
>> that's fine
>
> Sure it is. I'm like that myself :)
>
>> Somebody suggest a better word than 'feeling' for what I am
>> describing
>> - I think we all know what emotions are
>
> My suggestion is: thoughts. I'd say one of the main characteristics of
> the brain is its ability to anticipate future states. We seek future
> states with more positive emotions. As we learn about the environment,
> we develop brain mechanisms that guide us away from negative emotions
> of towards positive emotions without the need for further emotional
> responses.
Yes indeed
The brain is a time machine, which, when fully cranked-up, will
simulate alternative futures, only one of which we can have any
purchase on ;-D
But
This positive/negative thing, Telmo
What's the role for 'emotions' which are neither positive nor
negative, possibly because they exist in a superposition of more than
one value?
Is that possible? Have you ever experienced that? 'Great' music seems
able to generate emotions that are so refined and precise that the
listener would be hard-pressed to say what grade of emotional reaction
they are having
As Felix Mendelssohn said "It's not that music is too vague in what it
is trying to say that makes it hard for people to understand; it's
that it is too precise"
>
>
> I see artists as mind hackers. They are able to "push buttons" in our
> minds without the need for specific scientific knowledge about the
> underlying mechanisms.
Bastards!!! How can they do that????
> Surrealists, for example, amaze me, because
> they are able to evoke emotions that I didn't even know existed.
That's exactly what I was referring to above about 'superposition of
emotional states' - neither positive nor negative; but SPECIFIC in
some wordless way nonetheless
Once again, I would be more inclined to call this a 'feeling state' as
opposed to an 'emotional state'. There's a much higher intellectual
component
Music to Math:
Whenever I watch Garrett Lisi rotate his mathematical object E8
through all those dimensions and the architecture of the thing changes
right before my eyes I feel like weeping and laughing at the same
time. Does E8 affect anyone else like this?
Maybe I'm just crazy
Now THAT'S surreal, Telmo!
>
>
> And then there's the big white elephant in the room: consciousness. I
> don't know what it is and I don't believe it somehow "emerges" from
> brain function. I do believe this mystery to be an indication that
> some very fundamental insights are still missing in our model of
> reality. Maybe one day some new Einstein will come up with a great
> insight and our current paradigm will be replaced, making all these
> discussions seem rather naive.
>
> Telmo Menezes.
>
> >
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Received on Sat Oct 25 2008 - 19:04:06 PDT