Re: Believing ...

From: Bruno Marchal <>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:36:51 +0100

Le 20-mars-07, à 17:07, Brent Meeker a écrit :

> Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> Le 01-mars-07, à 00:35, Brent Meeker a écrit :
>>> Brent Meeker quoted:
>>> "Atheism is a belief system the way "Off" is a TV channel."
>>> --- George Carlin
>> Carlin makes the typical confusion between atheism and agnosticism.
>> An atheist has indeed a rich belief system:
>> 1) he believes that God does not exist (unlike an agnostic who does
>> not
>> believe that God exists: that makes a huge difference)
> I disagree. Those are definitions consistent is usage, but so are
> atheist: one who doesn't believe that God (meaning the god of theism)
> exists.
> agnostic: one who believes it is impossible have any knowledge as to
> whether God exists.
> Those are also common usages and align more closely with the etymology
> of the words.

Even searching in most web dictionaries I don't find such definitions,
except in parentheses with remark like "some also use the term in such
or such way".

>> 2) he generally believes in a material or Aristotelian Universe
>> (despite its contradiction with comp,
> What contradiction is that?

It is the epistemological contradiction which follows the UDA
reasoning. It is not an ontic contradiction because science can never
refute anything ontological. But it is a logical contradiction between
comp, materialism and even very weak form of Occam razor, like the
contradiction in believing in both thermodynamic and invisible horses
pulling cars.

>> or with QM, or with some
>> physically reproducible facts, and despite any proof or argument
>> beyond
>> the Aristotelian Matter reification.)
> To say one shouldn't reifying matter seems like saying one shouldn't
> anthropomorphize people. Things made of matter, tables and chairs,
> exist paradigmatically. That there may be some deeper, more
> fundamental explanation of tables and chairs hardly makes them go
> away.

Of course. I was talking about primitive or reifed matter, not about
gluons or elephants.

Must go for now,


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Received on Wed Mar 21 2007 - 07:37:53 PDT

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