Re: Evil ? (was: Hypostases (was: Natural Order & Belief)

From: Tom Caylor <>
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:31:17 -0800

Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > > > Tom Caylor wrote:
> > > > > So the solution to the problem of evil *starts* with the theological
> > > > > solution, as I said above, the solution to the separation between us
> > > > > and who we really are meant to be. Since we were made in the image of
> > > > > the personal God, then with the G(Logos) we can be brought into
> > > > > relationship with Him again. This is the core to the solution of evil.
> > > > > Now this does not automatically imply that evil is immediately solved
> > > > > down in the 5th through 8th hypostases, i.e. the concrete problem of
> > > > > evil. But the solution to evil must first start at the level of our
> > > > > human persons.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I want to correct myself when I said "the solution to evil must first
> > > > start at the level of our human persons." It starts with the personal
> > > > God. I was just saying that personal redemption/healing comes before
> > > > "physical" redemption/healing. Romans 8 actually addresses this
> > > > "matter" too in verses 18-22.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > > What does the Qur'an say about the matter? After all, every word in that
> > > document was written down precisely as dictated by God in the original
> > > Arabic, and it is more recent than the Old or New Testament.
> > >
> > > Stathis Papaioannou
> >
> > This is sort of a contingent question for this List, since you could
> > look it up for yourself if you really wanted to know.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Sura 14:48
> > "The day will come when this earth will be substituted with a new
> > earth, and also the heavens, and everyone will be brought before GOD,
> > the One, the Supreme."
> So you believe that the Qur'an is the literal word of God? What I was hoping is that
> you would say Muhammed was deluded or lying, so that the Qur'an is at best an
> impressive piece of literature with some interesting moral teachings: i.e., what atheists
> say about the Bible.
> Stathis Papioannou

No, I was just answering your question. I'm going out on a limb (not
referring to Shirley McLane ;) but I think that the belief in Islam
about the Qur'an is that it fulfills the role of the 2nd/3rd
hypostates, instead of the person of Jesus. It is eternal and spans
the infinite gap between God and man. For the Christian, Jesus
fulfills this role. (Also, Jesus, being a person, solves the problem
of the infinite relationship gap between us and God in a from-God-to-us
direction rather than the from-us-to-God direction of good works. Good
works are only finite.) So as I see it the Christian has a different
belief about the Bible than does the Muslim about the Qur'an. There
are plenty of good sources about the Christian's belief about the
Bible, and evidence to support those beliefs, so I don't want to get
into a long discussion about it on this List. I'll just say that I
believe that a non-Christian can read the Bible, and about the Bible,
to try to find out something in a rational way, just like reading any
other book.

Also, not to get into a discussion about the terms "atheist" vs.
"agnostic", I'll just say that I'm glad you said "atheists" because an
agnostic would leave it open about whether the Bible really has
something to say to us from God. In a way I am agnostic in the sense
that I will always doubt, since in this unglorified finite body I will
always only see "through a glass darkly" with respect to my particular
current frame of reference a finite piece of the infinite that I have
hope/faith in. Just like we always have a little doubt about the
findings of science.


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Received on Sun Jan 07 2007 - 02:31:38 PST

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