Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
> Le 16-nov.-06, à 13:59, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit :
>
>>
>> Bruno,
>>
>> I suspect you can talk about God in this way when the subject of
>> atheism
>> comes up because you live in post-Enlightenment Europe.
>
>
> It is a difficult subject, perhaps a bit out of topics or premature,
> but I do not believe so much in the enlightenment in Europe. It has
> been a very partial "enlightenment" ...
>
>
>
>
>> But if you lived in
>> a certain large English-speaking country where a substantial
>> proportion of
>> the population believe that God created Adam and Eve 6000 years ago and
>> the dinosaurs died out because they didn't fit on Noah's ark, you
>> might be less
>> keen to suggest anything that might be construed as supporting theism.
>
>
> I live in one of the most catholic country in the world, with some
> island of atheism, but both catholics and atheists believe agnosticism
> (which is imo the best scientist methodology) is a mental disease.
> Actually atheists are even far more dogmatic than educated christians,
> but, ok, indeed few people here would take Adam and Eve for real
> history.
>
>
> But now, I do believe that if today so many people here and there
> believe "seriously" in religious legends or dogma, this is due to the
> fact that the scientific attitude in theology has been successfully
> banished from the academy since a long time. It is because "theology"
> is no more taken seriously that obscurity and superstition develop
> itself in the religious realm. Under the (neo)platonist, you have to
> pass exams in advanced mathematics, astronomy, music before entering
> the theology field. If we continue to forbid or discourage the
> rationalist attitude in theology, then unfounded theology and
> superstition will continue to reign, and ... many will use this to say
> we have to continue to forbid rationalism in it. I think we should cut
> that loop. If we don't, it is because "naturalism" or "physicalism" or
> "materialism" is the new (fake) religion with new "Gods" like the
> physical universe (a concept which does not explain a lot, and which is
> not clear at all once you take the fundamental question seriously, this
> should be clear with the UDA and any serious reasoning on the mind body
> problem).
>
> An honest scientist should admit that we are still very ignorant on
> most fundamental questions. Today it is politically correct to be open
> minded toward any religion and belief system. I think we should on the
> contrary be more demanding in rigor, in all inquiry fields.
>
> My father (who was working in the law) told me once that it is much
> more important to be rigorous in the human science than in exact
> science.
> Indeed, an error in the exact science leads quickly to a catastrophe
> (from the rejected paper, to the explosion of the laboratory ...) so
> that you learn quickly. An error in the human science could lead to
> millenaries of useless suffering if not longer.
>
> Do you see what I am trying to say? I understand Colin's feeling of
> being fed up with religion, I am too. But I react differently because I
> think that the widespread superstitions really are due to the fact that
> we are not taking seriously enough the fundamental matters.
>
> Recall that for me SCIENCE = DOUBT. When I say we should be serious in
> theology, it means we should develop and encourage that doubting
> attitude in theology. This is not incompatible with faith. But it is
> incompatible with any form of blind faith, brainwashings, etc.
>
> Bruno
I think the difference in attitude is because you take theology to mean a study of the metaphysical basis of the world. This is a very broad interpretation of the word. The "theo" refers to a "God", an immortal person of great power and "theism" refers to belief that such a person exists and should be worshipped and answers prayers. I think you will agree that this is so improbable as not to be seriously entertained. Stretching the meaning to encompass all study of fundamental metaphysics strikes me as intellectually dishonest; mere appeasement of the religious powers that be.
Brent Meeker
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Received on Thu Nov 16 2006 - 12:40:25 PST