1Z wrote:
> Bruno Marchal wrote:
> > Le 09-nov.-06, à 14:07, 1Z a écrit :
> >
> > > Bruno Marchal wrote:
> > >> Le 31-oct.-06, à 19:37, 1Z a écrit :
> > >>
> > >>> Well, I think numbers don't exist AT ALL....
> > >>
> > >> I have not the slightest idea what you mean by that.
> > >
> > > If you don't understand anti-Platonism, that would certainly explain
> > > why you don't argue against it.
> >
> >
> > I still don't understand what you mean by numbers does not exist at
> > all.
> > If that is "antiplatonism", it would help me if you could explain
> > what is "antiplatonism", or better what could it mean that the numbers
> > don't exist. We already agree they don't exist physically, but saying
> > they does not exist at all ???
>
> It means they don't non-physically exist either.
>
> Mathematical claims about existence can be true
> of false, but so can fictional claims like "Harry Potter exists
> in Middle Earth"
>
> > Even Licorne exists in some sense,
> > without referent in "the physical world", but with referent (meaning)
> > in some fantasy worlds?
>
> Fantasy worlds don't exist -- that's why they are called fantasy
> worlds, --
> Licornes don't exist, and Licornes' don't exist in fantasy worlds.
>
> Meaning is *not* the same thing as reference (Bedeutung). That is the
> box the anti-Platonist has climbed out of. Some terms have
> referents (non-linguistic items they denote), others have only
> "sense" (Sinn). Sense and reference are two dimensions
> aspects of meaning, but not every term has both.
> Sense is internal to langauge, it a relationship between a
> word/concept
> and others. It is like a dictionary definition, whereas reference is
> like
> defining a word by pointing and saying "it is one of those".
> But no-one has ever defined a Licorne that way, since
> there is no Licorne to be pointed to. Mathematical concepts
> are defined in terms of other mathematical concepts.
> Mathematical reference is impossible and unnecessary.
>
> > Why could numbers not exist in some similar
> > sense, except that the number fantasy kiks back (as Tom has recalled
> > recently).
>
> Saying that Licornes exist in a fantasy world
> is a cumbersome way of saying they don't
> literally exist. Well, numbers don't literally
> kick back. They don't interact causally
> with my reality.
What about:
If (2^32582657)-1 is a prime number, I will not eat my hat.
In all possible worlds where I always keep my promises, I will not eat
my hat.
This is causally a result of the fact that (2^32582657)-1 is a prime
number.
Tom
>
> > I am just trying to understand what you say.
> >
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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Received on Fri Nov 10 2006 - 15:11:30 PST