Re: Interested in thoughts on this excerpt from Martin Rees

From: Bruno Marchal <>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:29:08 +0200

Le 08-août-06, à 15:54, W. C. a écrit :

>> From: Bruno Marchal
>> ...
>> I just said you were deadly wrong here, but rereading your post I
>> find it
>> somehow ambiguous.
>> Let me comment anyway.
>> Human classical teleportation, although possible in principle, will
>> not be
>> possible in our life time (except for those who will succeed in some
>> lucky
>> cryogenisation process). Artificial brain will first be developed with
>> graft of genetically engineered animals neurons, through progress in
>> harnessing the immune system and prion diseases (that will take
>> time). Only
>> latter will come "purely" artificial digital brain, and even this
>> will be a
>> matter of piece by piece progress (artificial hypocampus, artificial
>> limbic
>> system, .... until artificial cortex (this one will take perhaps a
>> millenium), and pionner of immortality will have hard time for many
>> technical but also social and ethical reasons.
> Thanks for your patience. I can see that you are really very patient
> because
> you often reply many similar
> questions that you may have replied hundreds of times before.
> Although I appreciate your patience, I still don't agree with you
> about the
> teleportation.
> When we say teleportation, we mean we send someone from location A to
> location B *like a magic* (Start Trek stuff).
> The person at A is *exactly* the same as the one at B. This really has
> little to do with digital or artificial stuff.
> Human body and brain are analog, same for A & B. It's useless to use
> digital
> or artificial conversion (since I assume no substitution level).

But then there is really no problem between us. We just have a
different starting hypothesis.
You assume the negation of comp. That's all.
But analog machine can in general be simulated by digital machine. Only
analog machine using explicitly infinite thrid person information in
finite time will be non turing emulable. It is up to you to explain us
why you think "infinite third person information" is needed for having
a genuine person.
(First person infinite information will not work given that comp
predicts that first person are associated directly to a continuum (high
infinite) of information flows.

> If I have a scar on my left hand, you need to teleport this scar also.
> Same
> for any of my old memories.
> We are not talking about the teleportation of some *standard PC parts*
> (like
> the CPU/HDD) from A to B.
>> But where I think you are wrong is that articial brain and body, even
>> if it
>> needs a millenium of work to succeed with some reasonable
>> probability, will
>> not really help us in understanding the brain and its functioning. It
>> just
>> happens that, even if it is *very* difficult, the copy of a brain is
>> almost
>> infinitely easier that the understanding of how a brain work (even
>> assuming
>> some high substitution level).
> Assume no substitution level, if you can teleport me (a male) from A
> to B
> and let me agree completely that I am *exactly* (body, memory,
> consciousness
> etc.) the same me,
> I think it will let us own the complete understanding of the so-called
> consciousness, existence of soul? ... such big questions.
>> To be sure here comp says something rather negative: humans brains
>> will
>> never completely understand the human brain. It is true that the 3000
>> AD
>> humans will perhaps eventually understand the basics of 2000 AD
>> human's
>> brain, but only true their own bigger "brain" (including
>> self-developing
>> machine) which will be beyond their comprehension. A little like
>> bacteria
>> and amoeba "learns" to reproduce themselves without any higher level
>> understanding of what is going on.
> See my comment above. Sooner or later, I think human beings will have
> answers.

No problem per se (withouit comp). With comp, I can explain why we can
have better and better answers, but there is no last answer. But then
comp explains why.

>> Of course if comp is correct we can understand very fundamental
>> principles
>> which are at the "logical origin" of the realities .... (that's what
>> we are
>> discussing now).


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Received on Wed Aug 09 2006 - 06:31:14 PDT

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