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From: John M <jamikes.domain.name.hidden>

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:32:06 -0400

1Z:

I liked your examples, would have liked better if you do not base the entire

list on "matter to exist". It may not.

I have a notion - cannot put my finger on an adequate formulation of it into

words - that mathematics cannot be computed by mathamatics - I think Goedel

would have some objections to that.

Somebody tell me if this is a wrong idea. I will not fight it. (Not my

table).

John M

----- Original Message -----

From: "1Z" <peterdjones.domain.name.hidden>

To: "Everything List" <everything-list.domain.name.hidden>

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:48 PM

Subject: Re: This is not the roadmap

Bruno Marchal wrote:

*> Le 24-juil.-06, à 02:26, 1Z a écrit :
*

*> > OTOH, materialism explains how qualia can be unrelated to computation.
*

*> Could you say how (without invoking words like "real")?
*

If nothing exists except mathematical structures, qualia can only

be identical to mathematical structures.

If qualia exist as non-mathematical properties, then something

exists other than mathematical structures.

If something exists other than mathematical structures, then

qualia can supervene in on it, rather than on mathematical structures

per se.

if matter exists as a non-mathematical structure. then qualia

can supervene on it, and not on only mathematical structures.

If computationalism is true, qualia must supervene on computational

processes.

Computational processes are mathematical structures , so if

computationalism is true, qualia must supervene on mathematical

structures.

Qualia must be related to mathematical structures to be related to

computational

processes.

If there is a way in which qualia can be unrelated to mathematical

structures

it is also a way in which they can be unrelated to computational

processes.

If matter exists as a non-mathematical structure. then qualia

can supervene on it, and not on only mathematical structures.

Therefore , if matter exists, there is a way in which qualia can be

unrelated to mathematical structures.

Therefore, if matter exists, there is a way in which qualia can be

unrelated to computational processes.

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Received on Mon Jul 31 2006 - 17:34:24 PDT

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:32:06 -0400

1Z:

I liked your examples, would have liked better if you do not base the entire

list on "matter to exist". It may not.

I have a notion - cannot put my finger on an adequate formulation of it into

words - that mathematics cannot be computed by mathamatics - I think Goedel

would have some objections to that.

Somebody tell me if this is a wrong idea. I will not fight it. (Not my

table).

John M

----- Original Message -----

From: "1Z" <peterdjones.domain.name.hidden>

To: "Everything List" <everything-list.domain.name.hidden>

Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:48 PM

Subject: Re: This is not the roadmap

Bruno Marchal wrote:

If nothing exists except mathematical structures, qualia can only

be identical to mathematical structures.

If qualia exist as non-mathematical properties, then something

exists other than mathematical structures.

If something exists other than mathematical structures, then

qualia can supervene in on it, rather than on mathematical structures

per se.

if matter exists as a non-mathematical structure. then qualia

can supervene on it, and not on only mathematical structures.

If computationalism is true, qualia must supervene on computational

processes.

Computational processes are mathematical structures , so if

computationalism is true, qualia must supervene on mathematical

structures.

Qualia must be related to mathematical structures to be related to

computational

processes.

If there is a way in which qualia can be unrelated to mathematical

structures

it is also a way in which they can be unrelated to computational

processes.

If matter exists as a non-mathematical structure. then qualia

can supervene on it, and not on only mathematical structures.

Therefore , if matter exists, there is a way in which qualia can be

unrelated to mathematical structures.

Therefore, if matter exists, there is a way in which qualia can be

unrelated to computational processes.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.

To post to this group, send email to everything-list.domain.name.hidden

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list-unsubscribe.domain.name.hidden

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Received on Mon Jul 31 2006 - 17:34:24 PDT

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